FUDiabetes

Trying to eliminate running BG LOWs and post run BG HIGHs

running
blood-sugar

#41

what are your basal rates like? i am just curious b/c we are all soooo different that i am constantly baffled.

my TDB comes to 12 units per 24 hours.


#42

Hmm, I don’t know about that. Yes, I’d like to hear @Eric’s opinion on this, too. I try to time the eating with the so called “bend” on Dexcom. Actually, as soon as I see a few lower BGs then I feel comfortable eating.


#43

Yes, me, too. I eat a lot of cheese and nuts as well. Cheese effects me like any candy would so I definitely bolus for it! I usually take 1U for one slice of hard cheese (parmigiano). Protein effects me, too, but I don’t really have a handle on how to dose for it. There seems to be a very long delay before I see a rise. So I’m experimenting w/ the extended bolus (omnipod).

Okay, yes, we are very much alike! :slight_smile: I probably eat the same as you in calories, but don’t bother to count. No, I don’t consider myself skinny but I’m on the small side :frowning: and maybe that effects the ICR, etc. too.

We ARE alike! That is what my basal is, too. My basal profile is set to 0.5U/hr but I also tend to use the temp basal a lot when it looks like I’m heading for a persistent low. Then I might reduce it by 50%, same thing for a persistent high, so everyday is different! :(:thinking:


#44

i have yet to figure out how to bolus for cheese (and all the different kinds of cheeses); i dont know whether to do a square extended bolus for it, and it becomes such a PITA that i just eat what i want, expect the later rise, and then do corrections as needed. for me, one large serving of lean protein (tuna fish or white meat chicken/turkey) is always equal for me at 10gms of “carbs”. i dont know how i came to figuring that one out…just a lot of experimentation. if i eat fish (and i love fatty fish like salmon, particularly sashimi) or dark meat chicken/turkey i MUST use a dual bolus and account for the fat slowing down the digestion. and, then i need to count fat as i would carbs and bolus for that as well.

i have about 6 or so different basal rates/24 hours. but my consistant one remains the same from 12pm till 5pm every day ( 3.25U/H ) but like you, some days i need a bit extra and some days less. i just use the TB for those days.


#45

Really, just like carbs? Do you use an extended bolus for fats to account for the delay in digestion? I’ve noticed that fat really slows down my digestion, too. I’ve started add a heaping tablespoon of whipped, heavy cream to my coffee in the morning, and immediately I noticed the slow down. I start to get 1-2mg BG increases about an hour after drinking, but the increase continues for hours, maybe 5 hours, whereas before breakfast was digested within a couple of hours. To counter the slow down and steady increase, I’ve starting bolusing .5U about 2 hours after the first bolus. So a lot of sugar surfing :frowning:


#46

I just want to give an update on the overnight BGs after trying on the post-run refueling strategy with the Glucerna. I know just one day experience does not mean forever, but man, it made a huge difference in my overnight. I monitored BGs all night (kept waking up to check), and I did need to reduce my basal 4 times but by doing so I remained flat, 70s - 80s all night, waking up with BG 77 (finger).


I’m hoping today I won’t have to monitor all night, maybe just set a single temp basal of 50% (0.25U/hr) usual .50U/hr. I’m also planning to drink TWO Glucerna shakes for a total of 32g carbs. Thank you again, @daisymae for recommending the nutritional shakes, and @Eric for encouraging me to re-think my refueling!! :slight_smile:


#47

@Trying—this is awesome!

You may want to consider more refueling after a run? My son typically plans on 80-carb refuel after an hour run.


#48

Okay, thank you for the feedback! Your son probably runs much faster than me! 80g carb would mean 2.5 Glucerna shakes. I’ll try 2 today to see how I tolerate it :wink:


#49

Do you mind me asking what carb your son uses for refueling? I think I read on FUD that you use chocolate milk? If so, does it cause a spike?


#50

With swimming, we had a two step refuel: milk or chocolate milk right afterwards, dose for a big carb dinner right at the end of practice, then a big refuel 45 minutes after practice (big carb meal). It was well tuned and worked very smoothly.

But, with running, we are still struggling with big post-run peaks. We would like to do the same kind of refuel, but we have not been able to get low enough right after the run, and we still deal with big peaks. For instance, yesterday, my son dosed 8.5U 20 minutes before the end of his run, thinking it would take care of his full refuel, but, instead, he went to 170 within 30 minutes of his run, starting to rise from the moment he stopped, and remaining stable around 170 for another 1.5 hours. So, right now, we refuel as soon as we can go far enough down to eat, and we use a big carb meal lowish in fat.

His runs, however, are very different from yours: they are much shorter, 3-7 mile runs (45-60 minutes more or less), but often with very steep inclines: we live in the hills of Granada, Spain, so many runs are up and down the Alhambra or the Albaycin.


#51

Thanks for the feedback. Wow, swimming and running sure have a different effect on the body! I think your son may be doing more intense running that are more prone to post-run spikes than me. It is probably hot in Spain, too, making it more intense! I guess you MUST bolus before the end of the run then. So far, I don’t do that, but instead just start my regular basal back up about 1/2 hour before the end. That won’t be sufficient for your son though :frowning: I’m thinking I will try homemade, chocolate (skim) milk which would be less expensive but worry about it causing a spike. Nothing like trial and error! :wink:


#52

I am totally with you there! We have been at it for a couple of months, and count on zeroing in on the right treatment eventually :slight_smile:


#53

i am so happy for you!!! that is awesome.

i, on the other hand stayed nice and low all throughout the night, but when i woke this morning i was 155 before breakfast. i waited 45 minutes to see the bend downward, but popped up to 171 an hour and half after eating. i turned on a TB of 120% and waited it out without doing a bolus correction.after waiting 4 hours after my morning bolus, i only came down to 143. so i waited 20 minutes and after coming down to 122, i decided to eat my lunch.

this is unusual for me, especially after a day of hard swimming. dont know what my body is doing, but we’ll see as the day progresses. perhaps Eric has something to say about this (or anyone else for this matter !! )

feeling very frustrated. :disappointed_relieved:


#54

Tell me about your dinner yesterday and your past few days what you have been eating.

BTW, that situation would be a good time to do an IM shot.


#55

i completely agree about that, i was just too tired to bother. also, as we both know, i am more patient than you, so i decided to wait it out and see if all the IOB would bring me down back into my target range. obviously, my patience was completely unwarented and silly. but at least i am coming back down and hopefully the TB will help.

i have not been eating many carbs lately, b/c in the time that i stopped swimming and now, i have gained 4 pounds and my clothing isnt fitting comfortably. (yes, i am vain :wink: ) so i dont think this has much to do with my fine dining. and, as well, my numbers have been perfect all throughout the day and night for some time now, so this seems more like a fluke.

but, your kind analysis is ALWAYS welcome! any other thoughts you might have??? please share!!!

DM


#56

That’s funny!

You were higher than normal yesterday morning, so it seems like a trend. And that means it’s probably a good time to just increase your basal.

Your body may be adjusting to the cold weather.

Cold temperatures can slow down your metabolism. And in the cold weather, insulin sensitivity is lower. So I suggest increasing your basal a bit if you see this trend continue.


#57

8.5 units 20 minutes before finishing?? Wow… that’s a lot of insulin. And still a rise… Does he ever take a sharp turn downward and just plummet?? I do probably that much over a series of post-run shots, but I can’t imagine doing that much while still moving. Pretty crazy.

Just did my first real incline run yesterday, and I watched the wall the entire run. I imagine the hills of Granada are a little more beautiful. :grin:


#58

funny thing happened: i changed out my entire pump set and infusion site and within 2 hours, my BGs came right back down to perfect target range and have remained so all day (80s ).

as you always remind me (except this time) : "when in doubt, change it out! " HAHAHA :rofl:


#59

Yay!! Good work figuring that out! I’ve been wondering what the issue was. That is probably the last thing I do myself! First I spend hours analyzing what I could have done wrong :frowning:

Frigid today! I did go running but the cold and black ice sort of exhausted me. Similar results to yesterday, and I did drink TWO nutritional shakes post-run with 2U bolus. It put me a bit high, maxed out at 118. Still not bad! I still cannot tell whether it is the appropriate refueling. I don’t feel anymore energized. Am I supposed to? Do you when you refuel properly?

Here’s today’s NS graph. I ran 11:30 AM - 1:20 PM, 10 miles with a couple of stops probably 10 minutes. Temp basal was 0.10U/hr with 0 IOB.

Winds are starting to pick up here and below 0 expected tomorrow. Bundle up!!


#60

give it some time. two days is not long enough IMHO for you to really get the full benefits of your refuel. i noticed, in my experience, that it became more noticeable after about 1 month. but i think my body appreciated it from the first time!! :blush: less lactic acid build up, less muscle soreness and feelings of exhaustion. also, try to stay as hydrated as you can (one of the reasons that liquid refuel is so great). also, it will help your recovery and your BGs will appreciate it.