CDC:
Influenza vaccines are not highly viscous, so a fine-gauge (22- to 25-gauge) needle can be used.
The insulin syringes we use are 8mm x 31 gauge.
Our pen needles are 4mm x 32 gauge and 8mm x 31 gauge.
So their definition of fine gauge is much bigger than ours clearly. I think in general you don’t use really fine needles for IM though. You want them a bit longer and thicker to guarantee getting well into the muscle, vs just needing to get under the skin.
what i mean does not refere to the length of the needle itself; what i mean is the circumfirence of the needle is wider bc the fluid in the flu shot is thicker. insulin is very fine, so it doesnt have a need to push hard through the needle. (it is not as dense as the liquid in the flu shot) therefore it requires a larger space to push through to get into the skin and all the way into the muscle.
i use IM shots frequently for my insulin to bring a high down quickly. it is the longer length of the needle i need so that it will reach the muscle beneath the subq area above. all being said, i dont need a thicker needle for an IM shot, just a longer length needle.
am i making any sense whatsoever???
Totally. The width of the needle is the gauge. Higher gauge is thinner needle.
But the length of the needle comes into play as well.
I assume with our pen needles, that is why the 8mm needles are slightly wider (31 gauge) as compared to the 4mm needles (32 gauge) as maybe the thinner gauge at 32 is just not strong enough to handle the longer 8mm ?
And as you say the fluid itself can dictate what gauge is required.
1 Like
Be glad you don’t have to take the bicillin vaccination that we were given in boot camp. 18 gauge x 2 inches, and the crap feels like peanut butter going in. Ugh. that one sucked, for multiple days.
2 Likes
My wife and I got our flu shots yesterday at Costco! I went second (no, it wasn’t sacrificing the wife first!) and the guy came in with the normal vaccine (I’m 67, pushing 68 shortly). I commented that last year they gave me the “old person” version; he looked at the form and said, “You’re right, you should be getting the ‘enhandced’ shot!” (What a euphemism!) He went and re-did the paper work, got the “old person” version for me. Shortly afterwards, my arm was pretty sore, but no sickness per se as of this morning; however, I had to up by basal rate to 175% of normal and stayed high (175-210) post-meals that normally wouldn’t have me over 140-150 post meal. This morning woke up at 137 where I normally would be around 100-110 and FOTF (not normal for me) hit within 20 minutes taking me to 140+, back to the 175% and am now down to a reasonable level. Hopefully this wears off today… Next week: Latest Covid booster! (Wife and I decided not to do both at one time.)
All this to let others (T1s, T2s, and caregivers) know vaccines sometimes have an effect, sometimes not, and we all need to watch out for and treat it as needed!
6 Likes
So true! This year’s “senior” flu vaccine kicked my butt (mild fever, body aches, fatigue, higher post-meal BGs) while the Covid booster (had that first) hardly bothered me at all. Go figure!
5 Likes
The high-dose flu shot this year gave me side-effects for a couple days too. That just reminds me how much worse the actual flu would be.
4 Likes
When do they give you the “senior” version? I got a flu shot this year, but I don’t know what they gave me, other than it was quadrivalent.
1 Like
Count me as one of those that gets sick when I get vaccines. My body always has a very strong reaction. Not just flu vaccines either. Earlier this year I got the PPSV23 vaccine and I was sick for 3 days. And I felt HORRIBLE.
I also have the bad luck of never getting a good flu shot. I always got sick that year when I got it (well, twice really, feel like CRUD from the shot, then get sick later.)
So I don’t do the flu shots anymore. And I get sick less!
I wouldn’t mind if I was like most people. They get the shot, might feel a little ‘down’, then don’t get sick… Just not my luck I guess.
I still get all the other vaccines, but I no longer get the flu shot. Just not worth it for me. Basically a choice between ‘definitely feel BAD’, or ‘maybe get sick’.
I’m probably reacting to something else in the shots, but I’m pretty sure I’ll never know what.
1 Like
Age 65 and over is recommended for the high-dose quadrivalent.
1 Like
Oh cool, I have another 30 years to go.
2 Likes
@Eric I think the cutoff is 65 because I got it last year (age 66) wife did not get it this year (dare I say? age 62. Of course it could be some weird CDC/FDA finding and end up being 63.5!
2 Likes