Surgical Adventure

@TomH
I stayed overnight for both my surgeries. The Hospitalist was actually helpful in running interference for me with the surgical floor nurses (who have an insulin protocol to follow). Getting out of the hospital quickly was also important! (So I could handle my own BG.) So do what you can to get home soon!

The Hospitalist said that the surgery was so stressful to the body that the stress response creates the high BG. It makes sense. I had higher BG the second surgery since my body was “primed” by the first to react with an even greater response.

I hope your surgery goes well and you are home quickly! The bottom line is we do a better job controlling our BG than they can do in the hospital.

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Well, part one of the adventure is done. I had a tube installed from the right side of my back into my right kidney with further installation of another piece down into the bladder. I expected not to “enjoy” the process, only moderate sedation, but once in recovery I was in so much discomfort/pain (felt like something trying to escape thru the ureter), they gave some liquid Torodal in the IV and took me back in to pull out some of tube/device thru the hole in my back. That made it tolerable, but still a lot of discomfort and pain, particularly if moved/twisted the wrong way. On the good side, my BG stayed at or below 150 for the event and after awards; I’d decrease basal to 80% of norm and raised the a desired range of 120-130 (when I drop it goes quickly). The folks seemed impressed with Loop/CGM/Dash pod lash up, seemed to appreciate the BG, insulin, and carb readings being available. I set the phone so it didn’t close and even if it did, how to get them easily from the lock screed. I don’t know if they actually used it as the procedure was relatively short. When they started to plug in the IV, they readily understood why I asked and said it was just normal saline and said they understood no dextrose or similar products would be in use and why. Got a script for some more Torodal and an anti-spasmodic. Slept on getting home until 1am, the Tordal wore off, but BG’s were reasonable (125-103). Tomorrow morning is the main event, hopefully BGs will be about the same. I’m expecting an overnight start in the hospital, so will find out how the hospital insulin protocol works…

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Best of luck to you @TomH!
:crossed_fingers:

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Well, not so quick there…. Seems Toradol is an NSAID and blood thinner (my wife noticed this AM) like ibuprofen, just like what the surgeon told me not to take starting a week ago. So, the wife calls the surgeon’s office this morning to see if I should continue it. The surgeon calls, somewhat freaked out (not encouraging), says he’s sorry that happened, doesn’t understand why, saying we should postpone (now I’m PO’d) until next week (never gotten an appt in less than two or three). He left it up to me but warned of dire potentials like unstoppable bleeding from an arterial organ…seriously, who does that, who leaves it up to the patient after saying you could die (ok, not stated, but certainly implied)! I had some not so carefully crafted words for him (use your imagination) reminded him he and the other doc work for the same group, he’s worked with the other doc for a couple of years, they spoke to each other on the phone in my presence just before the tube procedure, and the guy still gives me IV Toradol and pills?!! WTF!! Interestingly, the surgeon’s office “found” an appt for surgery on Monday, so four days to get the Toradol out of my system and of not being able to sleep thru the night…(thankfully not due to a high or low)!! I’ve called the head of the Urology Group and the head of the medical group over them to share a piece of my mind with and advise on the problem, need for training, and some sort of quality control…no answer as yet…cowards! Yes, I’m still perturbed…for the “vaunted” and costly medical system in the US, we have a long way to go… On the good side, my BG’s have remained relatively stable even with the various meds, pain, and mental anguish…

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Oy! Meshuggeneh Doctors! They make a “mistake” and who suffers? @TomH I hope you are finding some peace and sleep in all of this.

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@TomH, it’s great that you and your wife were your own best advocates and checked things out prior to the surgery.

Ultimately we are the ones that have to ensure nothing like this falls through the cracks.

For doctors, it’s a job. But for patients, it’s our lives.

Research everything, ask questions, get second opinions.

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@Jan They love to give dextrose in the IV’s but also it’s common especially in orthopedic surgery to give a little bit of cortisone to cut down on inflammation. I had ran across that on a forum and I react really high with cortisone. So when I had shoulder surgery I asked about it and he said they give a little bit so I asked the anesthesiologist to not give me any. But that could possibly be what caused your super high BG level.

I actually usually drop during surgeries, also during doctors visits, dentists etc. I have major white coat syndrome, BP goes up and my BG drops lol.

I also react a little differently to Toradol. When I fractured my back, it took them a month to figure it out. I had lots of Toradol shots during the first two weeks. They worked great but about 12-14 hours after, my BG level would significantly drop or even plummet. I don’t know if I would have connected it to the Toradol except I had so many, about 6 in a 10 day period. A very small percentage of people get hyperglycemia with Toradol, I didn’t at all, but I had to watch out for the sudden drop. My Cgm was very handy.

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The next step… Last Friday should have been the big day, but as reported above that didn’t happen thanks to a wrong med being used. What did happen is Friday afternoon I could feel the pain starting to build…not sure of the cause, too many factors. Using standard 10 pt scale, it was passing a 6 when I told the wife to take me to the ER and hit a 9.5 on the way there. We got to ER only to be turned away by security and a nurse…the ER was experiencing an “emergency”…that’s actually what they said; we think it was some hazmat spill. They even denied we could get in the hospital from the front doors! They directed us to the next closes hospital, about 8 miles away. We got down there, only to find nobody manning the ER access desk. Now I’m in the most pain I’ve ever felt…crushing the seat cushion with grip I swear would bend metal. They did a CT and said everything looked normal except a kidney stone. During all of this, I passed out from the pain resulting in my wife going just a bit crazy calling for help. They finally decided to try some morphine which didn’t touch the pain at first, a second dose finally took me down to 6-7 level slowly decreasing over an hour or so. After being there five hours, they decided to send me back…TO THE FIRST THE HOSPITAL for admission at least overnight!! That took another two hours (five people ahead of me needed transport). The pain level continued to drop to a 3 for the ambulance ride, only to increase in the room, the morphine was supposed to last 4 hours, at 2 hours I was back to a 9, couldn’t have more morphine, but they added an oxy component and 30-45 minutes it finally kicked in and I was able to sit, then lay down, and finally conked out, not sure if it was exhaustion or the meds, probably both. The docs decided to stick with the surgery as scheduled for Monday, discharged me late yesterday with several different meds to treat the pain. On the good side, the hospital and nurses were very welcoming of the pump, G6, and Loop app…one tech said she still had to take a BG with her device…she measured 120, the G6 was at 121; one nurse even commented I surely knew more about what was needed than she’d ever be and welcomed my guidance.

At home last night, I was up again with severe pain for a couple of hours; couldn’t sit down, lay down, walking around helped marginally; it finally subsided enough to get to sleep. I think its the irritation of the tube, stent, and whatever else they put in there for to aid the operation tomorrow.

Here’s the weird part: I had one low BG event, reaching 61 and a high of 163, neither was at the height of the pain, and of course I needed G6 and pod change out during the events of last night. I don’t understand the low as I’d set Loop to seek a 120-130 level with 80% basal, so the high was expected. I feel terrible that my moans and “pain comments” kept my wife up as well, I’m fortunate she’s understanding and offered suggestions on things to try. I could find no position (I tried everything) to offer some relief. I can’t wait to have this whole adventure in the rear-view mirror!

Thanks for letting me rant here, its cathartic at least!

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What a horrendous experience with ER and awful pain. Thank goodness the pain meds are helping but Monday cannot come too soon. Fi gers crossed all goes well tomorrow and the pain subsides. Thank goodness for Loop and devices, too, keeping you well controlled.

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@TomH good luck on your surgery tomorrow. I know it can’t come soon enough for you or your wife. What you have both been through is incredible. Relief is coming.

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Many many hugs for what you went through. Hopefully today you are coping okay. Wishing you a much easier path tomorrow.

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@Marie Thanks! Don’t know why, but pain today has been the least of about the last three weeks. The wife and I just watch a show about the brain “interpreting” things for us (the old blue/black/white/gold dress thing) so I’m half thinking I’m just getting used to it, but also know its not only that; perhaps we’ve just figured out the order and timing of the meds.

I’ll let you all know how it goes at the surgery hospital and their approach to the tech I use; hopefully, its just as good as Inova Loudoun was night before last!

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Oooof Tom, am just catching up and am thinking about you today. So sorry you’ve been through this pain and hope that it will all soon be a distant memory. xo

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I apologize for the length here…use what helps and throw out the rest!

Well, as Frodo would say, “I’m home from the adventure! The hospital discharged me about noon today. :joy: On the good side, I’m not in pain and hope it stays that way. In short, I’ll say everything went great, right up to the night nurse that failed to listen to her patient. So, If you’ve got a procedure/surgery coming up here’s what I did, what happened, and what I recommend:

First: BE YOUR OWN ADVOCATE! It’s a mantra all T1s need to learn and use! I was already head down this road, and spurred on by @Eric, @ClaudnDaye, and several others here on FUD and Doris over on JDRF. We, and our loved ones/care givers, have to speak up for ourselves in every medical encounter. Endo’s, other docs, nurses, techs all rely on what they learned in school and chose to keep up on; for many, that means 20-50 years ago! A LOT has changed!

What I did:
Told every doc, nurse, or tech that touched me I’m a T1, use a pump, CGM, and use the Loop app on my phone to control the pump.
Wrote an information sheet with Name, address, phone, emergency contacts/phones, T1 status, what not to give me (drips with dextrose/sugars to be avoided unless needed/essential); how to check my iPhone (if open) for BG (take it fully charged and unlocked with no sleep period, or provide the code to unlock and access); how to easily check BG on iPhone (if locked) (simple tap and swipe left to right shows Dexcom widget, Loop widget, Sugarmate widget). I gave a copy to the admitting person, I recommend multiple copies: one for admitting, one for the surgical team (anesthetist best one to give it to), one for the floor nurse, one to be placed in your chart if not on it, etc. You might go so far as asking for a signature on an “original” from whomever you give one. I’ve even done one up with pictures of my phone, the unlock code prominent at the top, arrows point to apps to use to show or do what’s needed (particularly if the surgeon or anesthetist has any interest at all) showing how to read current BG, IOB, increase/decrease insulin. You really need to trust the person/people you give that last one too, but I figure they already have my/your life in their hands!

If you stay overnight:
Tell the floor/room nurse and any assistants/techs of your T1 status, pump (show it to them), CGM (show it to them), any app you use to run/monitor on a phone or the PDM you use (show it to them).
Ask if they were informed of T1 status, what NOT to give you (drips with dextrose, high carb meals, watch for steroids with side-effects for T1s.
Check how many shifts of nurses/assistants/techs they have, what times they change; ensure you put them through the same routine.
Everytime someone touches an IV to add/change anything going into you, feel free
to ask what it is, what it does, what it contains (my hospital had a sign up recommending this!), remind them why you’re asking and be polite.

My experience:
The folks during the surgery and at the hospital were very accepting/understanding of my pump, CGM, and Loop app running it all (sounds like something Elron should say, eh!). After the surgery, the nurse on the ward took them in stride and ensured nothing hooked to my IV had dextrose in it. Unfortunately, the night nurse did NOT get the message; and while recognized my T1 status, she followed the doctor orders in the chart at a 9pm IV bag swap and went from saline to 5% dextrose. I was groggy but know I told her I couldn’t have dextrose. Communication failed and I ended up with a dextrose drip until 6am. My Loop app automatically did its thing and tried, but failed, to control the inevitable BG rise. At 12am I noticed I was 190, took a correction dose of 1 unit based on the 3 I already had on board (4 at 200 doesn’t do enough) activated a Loop preset for 150% over the next 3 hours, and went back to sleep. Woke up at 4am at 215 BG and turned the 150% back on. At 6am the nurse woke me for a blood check/pressure/temp. Loop advised I’d been over 200 for 6+ hours and still rising; it had tried and failed to compensate, but at least kept me under 215. The nurse was there to swap out the IV and I asked her to read me what was in the bag, when she said 5% dextrose, I knew what had happened, told her to turn it off, remove it along with the replacement she had in hand, and hang a saline drip. She started to argue, but I had my wits about me now. I advised her if my Loop app hadn’t tried to resolve it, I’d be in the 400’s if not higher and possibly on my way to DKA, coma, or death…(ok, probably a little melo-dramatic)…but that got her attention and she disconnected the drip entirely.

The hospital discharge doc told me the the records indicate the surgeon directed the dextrose drip. I’ll be checking, getting the actual documents, and having a serious discussion with whoever wrote them. I appreciate the medical community is huge, can’t all be experts on everything, but when patients bring important matters up to the professionals, the progessionals need to step up and stop relying on pro forma paperwork, orders, and procedures.

Any way, the surgery is over, I’m hopeful of getting back to my great BG range control, and actually being able to do things around the house…swearing at lows!

I love #WeAreNotWaiting
I think we need #WeAreOurOwnAdvocates

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So glad to hear that the surgery was a success and pain has been relieved. I have to say, I am disappointed that after all of your effort to notify appropriate medical staff of your T1 status and use of all of your T1 devices, they STILL gave you a solution with 5% dextrose! I imagine that had to have added to you not feeling too well while in recovery. I hope you are able to follow up with them so that this does not happen to future T1 patients, and thank you very much for updating us with the details, and actions you took! The important point is that you are now home and feeling better!!!

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@TomH & @Trying I would like to advocate for those of us with type 2. At least Tom was able to keep his BG from 400+ by using his pump. A non-insulin using type 2 would just have their BG soar into the stratosphere. While we are not prone to DKA we can get HHS (hyperosmolar hyperglycaemic state) which is dangerous.

One one in patient surgical hospital stay was a nightmare of incompetence by the hospital staff. The food was all wrong for a type 2 lots of carbs, I don’t know what was in the drip because I was too naive to realize that it could be dextrose or lactated ringer instead of saline. I had been managing my BG quite well at home with diet, exercise, Metformin and Lantus. I was refused the right to do anything.

They would finger stick me a couple of times per day and if I was over 190mg/dl I would get a couple of units of R insulin. I was in hospital from Friday until Monday afternoon.

By Monday morning on my walks around the hallways with my bag on a catheter leash I was unable to focus clearly. When I got home I was around 250mg/dl.

This was maybe 10 years ago.

If I had eaten all the food and soda/juice on my tray and not got myself out and walking I probably would have hit 400mg/dl or more.

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Thanks for the words @Trying! I think I averted a “daring do” and the road to full recovery is at hand…albeit day by day, my wife would say. I’m resigned to the fact I (and we all) need and must be our own advocates at all times. I chalk it up as a learning exercise in what not to miss. In future, I will ensure I talked with the night nurse and not count on pass on’s shift to shift; and I’ll ensure I have a discussion, if appropriate, with the doctor about relying on standard orders for people he knows are a little different and the potential results he could inadvertently cause. On the good side, I’m pleased the hospital protocols either didn’t stand in the way, or at least one nurse felt empowered to change them to meet the circumstances with-in reasonable limits, maybe both.

Tom
#WeAreOurOwnAdvocates

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Yes, you are right, @CarlosLuis, T2, of course, also must advocate for their rights, including proper food, drips, management of BGs using devices. I did not mean to exclude T2!

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Totally agree! And thank you for including all the details, and learning experiences, too!!

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I know you didn’t, I just wanted to broaden the issue. The 2 diseases are different, but hyperglycemia is not prejudiced - an equal opportunity killer.

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