Running with OmniLoop

Type 1 & LADA
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Okay, all at once does seem easier and less time consuming. I think I’m sort of already using the “feeding the basal” technique, but not properly, or at least not with sufficient carbs during the 1+ hours since I sometimes go low.

Do you typically use the same I:C ratio for this bolus as when not running? If you take the carbs all at once, do you need to pre-bolus before eating carbs to give the insulin time to work? I’m thinking since the body is moving, pre-bolus time could be greatly reduced?

Do most people wait for the 1+ hour before they start to refuel? So the first hour should not require any refueling, right, depending on what the BG is of course?

And one more question!.. If I refuel while running 1+ hours, do I need to refuel AFTER the run? Probably not, right?

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Not even close!

Maybe anywhere from about 10% to 40% of my normal IC. But it is hard to say exactly, because when you’re running you might be dropping too. So the IC might even be less insulin because of the drop which you need to fuel for (I mean, if you are dropping, you’d take less insulin than if you were not dropping).

It depends. If I am dropping or already low, I don’t need to pre-b. Usually I try to take carbs when I am around 70 and on the way down. In that case, I don’t need to pre-b.

I don’t know what most people do. But to do it properly, you should not wait a whole hour before you start. Imagine if you are running 90 minutes. Waiting an hour would mean that you are only going to be fueling the last 30 minutes with exogenous carbs! So in the case of a 90 minute run, it would be much better to do it throughout the entire 90 minutes, instead of only the last 30 minutes!

I always do. But the amount depends on how much you burned on your run.

I imagine you want to be fully stocked for the next run, right? And since you are probably not fully able to take in whatever you burn during a run, while actually running, you might end the run with some carb “debt”.

How much you burned and would want to replenish comes down to distance and intensity for your run.

Look at 3 cases:

If your are running at an RER of 0.86 you are burning 50% carbs, and 50% fat. That is a great benchmark for calculations. Using that number as a guideline, in that case, whatever calories you burned, 1/2 of that total calorie usage is stuff you will want to replace! You would want to replace the carbs used, not the fat.

At an RER of 0.70, you are pretty much burning 100% fat. So for a run like that, you don’t need to replace much of anything!

And the other extreme, at an RER of 1.00, you are burning 100% carbs.

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Okay, that is what I thought!!! I’ll have to experiment then :slight_smile:

This is my usual case, so hopefully no pre-b!

That makes it easier, too, not to have to think about it as much. :slight_smile:

Okay, this makes sense. It all depends on if I’m able to replace the expected amount during the run. Typically I only look at carbs as they relate to my BG, not for fueling! I’ll have to get used to looking at them for fueling, too!!

Today was a washout, literally, with non stop rain, so I hope to try this out tomorrow!

Thank you, @Eric!!! :blush:

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just to put in my 2 cents on this matter: my husband and i each have exactly the same Smart Phones; we have tested their accuracy out by walking exactly the same miliage, steps and stairs included, and not once did our phones show the same result :thinking:

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Yes, this was my suspicions :wink: At the same time, my running partner wears a Garmin and my Apple watch is surprisingly close in distance to her Garmin! :thinking:

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it makes you wonder “what’s the point?” i mean, why have that app at all if it ain’t gonna give you close to accurate results. mine and my husband’s can be off as much as a 1/2 to an entire mile in one afternoon of walking together !!! :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

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Loop tells you when it’s zero temping; its quite transparent. So no secrets there, haha!

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you can use Night Scout to see IOB, which will reveal whether you’re zero-temped for a while and if so, if you have negative IOB.

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Thanks, @TiaG! Yes, I see on the daily graphs IOB! I can’t see an exact number but a nice line graph to get an idea of what it was. Very nice feature! :slight_smile:

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Since you were asking about this, I have some numbers to share with you for today.

A two hour run, I had a total of 92 grams.

And for that 92 grams I took…

0.25 units!

I finished at 97.

That was with ZB going for 30 minutes before, and for all but the last 30 minutes of the run. And I had practically no IOB before starting.

That’s an IC ratio of 1:368. Not exactly my typical IC.
:rofl:

The 92 grams is 46 grams per hour, so I was within that recommended amount per hour.

Anyway, those are crazy numbers. Exercise makes it much different.

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This is amazing!! Wow, I’m so glad you posted this because I would never know this is possible in a T1D! And fortunately, I read it BEFORE my run, so I tried to apply it today on the beach, at least as far as MY body works! :upside_down_face:

I think I have been much too aggressive with my boluses during runs. Yesterday was sort of a disaster at the beach, taking 0.5U pre-run for 20g carbs. About 40 mins into the run I crashed and spent the rest of the run feeding myself Sport Beans! :grimacing:

Today was much better. Running in the morning is problematic for me since I sometimes have dawn phenomenon, as many do. By the time I started the run I was at BG 126 from around 70 on wakeup. I resisted taking any correction though knowing what yesterday did with insulin on board!

I didn’t take carbs or bolus pre-run, and ran 'til I saw a steady downturn 'til BG was 90. Took 6 beans, or about 12g carbs (I think), and bolused .025U for it. I thought this might be too much, but since I was using my Apple watch, that was the only option with increments of 0.25U (I will change my Loop code to use increments of 0.1U!)! And continued this throughout the run, ending at BG 76. No lows during the run :slight_smile: I think post-run, I should have had more carbs, because I trended low all afternoon :frowning: Just as you suggested, Eric!! Eventually the body will take what it needs, and it did, ending in a slight low, and THEN I had the extra 10g carbs! :roll_eyes:

Run itself was very tough, with soft sand like quick sand, not to mention the high temps! I concentrated on just finishing! :crazy_face:

08:31 Run Start, BG 126, Scheduled Basal 0.5U, except for initial 30 mins, Loop primarily gave ZB
09:18 BG 90, 6 Sport Beans 12g carbs, Bolus 0.25U
09:30 BG 70, 5 Sport Bean 10g
09:54 BG 64, 2 Sport Bean 4g
10:33 Run end, BG 76, Bolus 1.5U, Walk 30 mins
10:54 Post Run BG 96
11:04 Refuel, BG 84, Boost 16g, Walk 20 mins, BG steady around 80
Duration: 1 hr 57 mins
Distance: approx. 10 miles

Tidepool graph:

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That’s cool, you have a lot of data there!

Can you show pictures of bolusing from your watch? Like what does that take? Is it easy while running?

Sweaty hands don’t work well with my phone, so I am not sure if I could use Loop for bolusing with my phone while running.

Does Loop let you suspend insulin delivery like you can do on the PDM? I know it doesn’t let you do temp basals, only the Temporary Override. I change my basal frequently while running, and Temporary Override seems like it would be difficult to turn on and off while running. But suspend might work for me. That’s basically the same as a zero basal.

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Yes.

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Thinking through this, it seems using a suspend while running is easier to turn basal on or off than the the temporary override sequence of button pushes.

If I wanted to bolus, I would cancel the suspend, do the bolus, and then turn the suspend back on (since you can’t bolus when suspended).

I have tested out the fingerprint unlock stuff. That’s super easy to use when my fingers are dry. But when sweaty, no dice! It just doesn’t work!

How easy is it to do with the watch? Can you show a video or something?

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Yeah, suspending is just two clicks. Click one is clicking on the pod image in the main screen of loop. Second click is “suspend insulin” link.

We aren’t using the watch to bolus right now so can’t make video of this personally. Since it has to be on Liam’s watch and since that would be very dangerous right now I just don’t have it on his watch.

Loopdocs shows the screens though for the watch face. It’s very easy but I don’t know if that’s with sweaty fingers or not.

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Yes, it is easy, even with sweaty hands, although I do still stop do it! Only thing is that the default is for 0.25U increments when you tap the + or - icon. I will change my copy of the Loop source to do 0.10U.

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That “white” icon should say “Bolus” in the last screenshot :slight_smile:

Yes, there is a suspend insulin delivery mode, but I don’t use it. Instead, I have a Temp Override for “Running” which effectively is a ZB. This will allow me to give a bolus during running, too, via the watch. The Override can easily be switched or disabled via the watch as well, so everything is done through the watch. The Override button is just below the Bolus button in the screenshot above. Tap it, then it lists all of the pre-defined Overrides you created in Loop on the Phone. Then just tap the one you want to activate. To deactive, just tap the Override button. It really is a great feature for running, and works well with sweaty hands. I never pull out my iPhone while running now.

I have a few “Running” Overrides, depending on my BG situation. Like a “Running40s90”, which will give me a 40% of my scheduled basal and ISF, and targets a BG of 90. I haven’t tried this one out though, but defined it in Loop on the phone just in case. I created a bunch on the iPhone Loop app.

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Yes, me either, just doesn’t work, I need to enter my passkey. The Apple watch is definitely the way to go. I hesitated at first to spend the money for it since I have a few Sony Smartwatches for my Android/xDrip+ app, but with Loop, Apple watch is really a great feature. Its battery lasts all day, too.

Yes, some people do that, but with the JoJo branch, the Overrides feature makes it possible to have the best of both - ZB and bolus, or even a 20% of schedule basal, and bolus. When using a percentage though for the predefined Override, it also means that when you enter a carb, Loop will calculate the amount of the bolus based on the percentage (of ISF, etc.). I actually haven’t used that feature yet.

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@Trying, @ClaudnDaye,
Thanks for the information. I think the watch would be the way to go for me. Sounds like it is easy!

But the other issue is that I am running out of real estate. I already wear a meter on one arm and a running watch on the other. :grinning:

@Trying, sorry to clutter your thread up with my questions!

Maybe there is a thread around here somewhere with info on all of this? Like what watch to get, etc?

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@Eric’s arm be all like…

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This is the watch I bought:
APPLE WATCH S4 44 SG AL BLK SP GPS-USA $ 429.00
Part Number: MU6D2LL/A

It has the larger face, wifi, gps, but not LTE. I didn’t think I’d need LTE since I my iPhone itself only has a data plan, no cellular/voice contract. It comes with 2 wristbands - small and large black bands.

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