FUDiabetes

Running with OmniLoop

I’ve been using the recently released to public version of Loop for OmniPod for about a week, though only a few FULL days of that week, due to various issues, like bad G6 sensor, Loop build issues, etc. I won’t go into those because those were all due to my carelessness. I also upgraded to Dexcom G6 from G5 at the same time!

This post is primarily concerned with managing Loop for running. I’ve done several long runs already with Loop, using various methods, some more successful than other, but I’m learning still! :blush:

Loop also recently released the JoJo build, which supports several Overrides. These Overrides allow the user to sort of mimic temp basals. At least that is my understanding of them. I created a Running Override in Loop - Settings - Override, and set min and max to 110. This, for me, will essentially suspend insulin for the period I specified. I set it to run “Indefinitely”. Today, I selected the Running Override nearly 1 hour prior to run start. Loop immediately switched my basal to 0 since my BG was under 110 (the minimum setting).

This essentially worked very well. I’ve attached a Tidepool graph for the day.
Activate Running Override: 11:30 AM (Loop switched basal to ZB)
Run start: 12:30 PM, BG 90
Run end: 14:30 PM, BG 61, deactivated Running Override in Loop

I did go a bit low during the run, hence, I had to take in a few carbs, shown in the chart, about 6g of fruit jellies (Cosco Kirkland with no food coloring).

The strange thing is that since I’ve been on Loop, I no longer have huge SPIKES after the run, and in fact, as the red dots show at 3 PM in the chart, I continued to go down. I don’t know yet if this is unrelated, or just coincidental, but it has been consistent since starting Loop.

Hence, in hindsight, I think I should have taken in a bit more carbs during the run to prevent going low AFTER the run (which typically did not occur pre-Loop!). I had 15g of carbs after the run, for which Loop estimated 1.55U, which is too much for me. I think this was because my Active Insulin was negative (as calculated by Loop) due to the ZB. I was indecisive about taking that much insulin so I waited for 30+ minutes before dosing it, when I started to see a spike. So beware for those who are doing bolus per Loop after a prolonged ZB. I’ve had to eat additional carbs (one nectarine) to cover the extra insulin. But Loop is keeping me remarkably stable!! Even with all my mishaps during the run! A 19% SD is unheard of for me. Yesterday was 17% SD! I’m going to order a spare RileyLink!! :heart_eyes:

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That’s frickin amazing, @Trying. I hope you’ll post a little while you work on some of the details. And I have a couple of friends beginning with OmniLoop, too. I’ll have to tell them to come over here… and eat their hearts out. :grin:

There’s no way you run this every day, right?? How often are you doing this kind of run, and do you vary your distances at all??

Thanks for posting :heart:

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Yes, I will try to keep up this post while I try to get used to this new (for me), great and amazing technology! So far, I’m loving OmniLoop, and am amazed how it has been keeping me stable, but I need to make tweaks for my personal running routines!

I’m afraid, unlike you, I don’t vary my running too much. I know I should. I love reading your post of your varied runs as coached by Eric. I could see the great influence it had on you, but only through your spectacular dedication and effort, so impressive and inspirational! I’m not so dedicated as you. I prefer to run everyday, but of course, life happens. Your posts actually inspired me to look into interval training. My nearest track is closed for renovation though, so I decided to stick with my trail running til the track reopens.

And soon, it will be warm enough for beach running!! More challenges with OmniLoop and RileyLink!! :slight_smile:

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Yeah, I’m not sure I have you beat in dedication. It was hearing of your mileage that made me want to stop being a wimp. :grin:

In fact, I was really hoping with your last thread that you’d go into some details about your runs… So maybe you will with your OmniLoop Running thread?? I’m always stalking your graphs to see if I can figure out your distances and whatnot, but I can’t figure it out. :grin:

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Oh, I don’t really monitor distance, but when using my Sony Smartwatch I enabled steps which uploaded to xDrip, so I could see the activity level in the chart as it related to BGs.

There doesn’t seem to be any integration of that sort on the iPhone though:( I can see steps in Apple Health but not in the same chart as the BGs and insulin. And Apple Health activity is not yet integrated in Tidepool or Nightscout, AFAIK. :frowning:

I don’t know how accurate Apple Health is in tracking distance and steps. I suspect not too accurate, but I will include that info in my post, just for a general idea of distance.

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I also would guess not great.

You really don’t have to do anything you weren’t planning to do. Just looking for some @Trying-motivation. :fist:

Not only do I have no idea about this…

But I can’t even figure out what that means. :neutral_face:

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AFAIK

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Sorry about that, but @bkh is right, AFAIK :wink: I always have difficulty with these shorthands, too:(

Today’s run went much like yesterday’s run, meaning I had a slight low, and then post run, a small spike, and then a long, continuous low. So I guess I did not learn anything from yesterday’s mishaps :frowning:

First, my morning did not go that well. I woke to a slight low, despite long periods of overnight ZB by Loop. Then a couple of spikes, which probably resulted in too much insulin in the form of temp basals for the afternoon run, causing me to need additional carbs.From reading LoopDocs and LoopTips this can occur if scheduled basal and/or ISF is off. I have both of these set per Autotune though. HWR, pre-Loop, I sometimes needed to reduce my basal w/ a temp by up to 50% of my usual basal, which is .50U/hr after a run. Loop does not have temp basals so I think I need to reduce my scheduled basal / increase my ISF which is 80, at least post run, and/or prior to sleep. @TiaG, I think you are using Loop. Does my reasoning make sense to you?? Any tips that you can give for the long, ZB temps?

Overall, though I’m still leaps and bounds better with Loop than pre-Loop. Note my SD (Standard Deviation) is still great at 22% (for me!). I definitely need to work on refining my Loop settings though.

I’ve attached a Tidepool graph for the day:

11:10 Activate Running Override (Loop switched basal to ZB)
11:58 Run start, BG 97
12:07 6 carbs (fruit gummies)
13:07 6 carbs
13:37 4 carbs
14:04 Run end, BG 68, deactivated Running Override in Loop
14:14 Bolus 1U, 15g, BG 88

And especially for @Nickyghaleb :sunny: Apple Health shows FWIW (for what it’s worth :thinking: ), not sure how useful or accurate this is! I’m new to iOS and new to Apple Health but it seems to show consistent results over similar runs at least! Oh, I was also wearing an Apple Watch. Not sure if Apple Health is getting this data from the watch or from the iPhone but I had, of course, both with me. So, @Nickyghaleb, no where near as speedy as you!!

Walking + Running: 11.8 mi
Steps: 21,684
Time: 2h 5m

@Trying Are you using the JoJo branch? If so, you can create a temp override that is 50% – it will reduce your overall insulin delivery by that much by temporarily changing your basals, ISF and carb F.

If you’re getting that wavy, up-and-down pattern, with long periods of zero basal followed by spikes up that then descend into a low, that’s a sign you have an overly strong ISF. It’s possible your basal rate is too high if you’re running low overnight. WE recently tweaked our settings and weakened our ISF considerably but INCREASED our basals because we were getting that hill-and-valley pattern but overall with lots of highs. WE’re pretty flat now but we’re sort of sticky at 130s and 140s instead of 110s, so we may need to tweak basal a bit more. But for us, we were seeing lots of highs to boot. If you’re seeing lots of lows, your basal rates might be too high as well.

WE don’t really do much exercise that needs accounting for with our son, but from what I understand from @daisymae’s swimming thread, if you run progressively over the course of the week, you might become slowly more insulin sensitive and need less basal as your workouts progress through the week. So it’s possible you’ll need to program in overrides like “running after two days” or “running every day” etc. Depending on how many days a week you run, you might need different basals and sensitivities on different days.

, how long was your low post-run? And when did it occur? If it’s 12 hours post-run, it could be that your muscles are pulling in fuel from your blood to replenish their glycogen stores. I think to combat that you should take carbs immediately after your run and then give insulin for those carbs. Not an expert of course, I think @Eric is the really helpful one on that.

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Yes, I am using JoJo branch. Really? I didn’t know this. Oh, now I see, in the Settings - Override Preset - New Preset, instead of using 100%, set it to 50% or whatever. I don’t think the Target Range would be needed for a percentage right?

Okay, so you were getting sort of the opposite effect as me, but still hills and valleys? Autotune consistently shows that 80 is a good ISF for me, same with basal of 0.5, but I’ve only been using Autotune sporadically and only on a few days of Loop data.

If you don’t mind me asking, what is your Correction Range setting? Mine is set to 70 - 80, Threshold is set to 70.

Yes, sticky at 130s is a bit high. I was having sticky at 115s and I wanted it lower, so I ended up giving a bolus. Instead I think I need to tweak the settings as you are doing.

Yes, I agree, I do become more insulin sensitive and pre-Loop I would just do a temp basal. So I will try the Override Preset for Temps. And great suggestion about “running after xx days”! I like that idea.

The lows seem to occur right away after the run, no spikes like I would normally get pre-Loop. I think my morning low this morning was a result of that, too, so well over 12 hours post-run.

Yes, you are right, about the post run carbs + insulin. I did attempt that, but still went low.

Here’s the video the Dev made demo’ing the override functionality:

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@Trying this is so exciting!!! Thank you for sharing! I can’t wait to keep reading and see where it goes. Nice work! And good luck sorting out the changes and whatnot to make it work for you.

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Thanks!!! Strange but I do not see the same UI even though I’m using JoJo branch,

At 0:44 and 1:49, the video shows Basal Rate, Sensitivity, and Carb Rate. Do you see this?

You are correct. I don’t see them either. Looks like the model he showchased isn’t the model we’ve downloaded with the jojo branch (I used Katies branch)

I just asked and Katie said (you might have already read it) that his demo’d version was an older version of overrides and I guess that information just didn’t make it into the later releases (even though I thought it was really good information to have!)

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Thanks, that is what I thought. I’m trying out a temp override now. Setting it for 60% of scheduled basal. So far, so good.

Loop shows Glucose at 80 right now, and “Eventually” at 79, with nearly a flat line for the full DIA in the Glucose chart! That is hard to believe, but I guess that is the ideal graph!

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We just received our RL today and I’m excited to get this all set up. Per @Eric’s recommendation (smart as always), I’m running a water POD initially (right now) to test things, get comfortable, etc., before sticking Liam. Erin and I will be learning from this one, then tomorrow night, we’ll start our looping journey. #stoked #earlychristmas

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I’m trying to figure out how to get that “BGTargets” NS pill box that I see most members have in their screenshots. I don’t have that pill box for Liam. Anyone know?

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Yes, I found that confusing, too!

The BGTargets pill only displays if you are actually running an Override in Loop. Once I initiated my Post-Run override preset, the BGTargets pill displayed the Correction Range (or target range, if set in the preset), and the insulin percentage override.

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Perfect! Thanks! I was searching and searching thinking it was some Heroku or NS setting somewhere. Awesome!

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