FUDiabetes

Running with OmniLoop

Thanks for this, as I am thinking to do just that! I love Loop so far, but I just can’t get it to work pre-runs. Today was one of my worst runs with Loop. I started at 99, switched to my Running override an hour pre-run, just as I have done successfully before. This time however, my BGs spiked up to 170 during the run! :frowning: I haven’t figured out why, but I disengaged the override, allowing Loop to give me temp basals. By end of run, just over 2 hours, I was back down to 89. So frustrating! I’ll try one more day closed loop but if I fail again, I’m going to switch back to open loop so I can control the basal manually.

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I have no idea what the setting is, but the first thing I think of is how long before your run did you change it? As in, could there have been a reduced rate before you changed therefore setting you up for a climb? And did you have any carbs prior to your run?? Any obvious differences?? I’m sure you’ve done all this thinking…I’m going to go post a run now, but I’ll just tell you I started at a 166 which I KNEW was going to rise and hit it with a couple of very small boluses in the very beginning. If I hadn’t, I would’ve been at a 200 or higher.

I wish I had something to offer on the looping part. :confused:

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I’m going to check your post out now! But, I actually had an inkling that my BGs might rise, too, yesterday. I’m not sure why I felt that, but something innate or just that it was already a bit high at 99. I had already gone through a low earlier in the morning so that could have had influence, too. :thinking:

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It has been several days since I’ve posted any of my running results. Overall, I’ve found Loop to do a fantastic job keeping my BGs stable on non-exercise days, and non Dexcom issue days, ie., failed sensors :weary: Except for these days, I typically get TiR (60-120) in the mid 90% :smile: with excursions being non severe lows typically upper 50s during a meal for maybe 15 minutes, and a few upper 120s again around meal time. These are probably related to my Loop settings being a bit off and I need to tweak these.

I continue to tinker with my settings on Loop for running. I’ve found my best results is to use my Running override, set to Correction Range of 200, so it doesn’t start up a basal at all during the run as long as all predicted BGs stay below 200. I initiate the override usually 30 minutes to an hour pre-run. Sometimes Loop will already be temping me ZB even before that for a period of time though, so it may not even be necessary to initiate the override early if my BGs are already on the low side.

I’ve attached a Tidepool graph for Saturday’s run:

13:25 Activate Running Override (Loop switched basal to ZB)
13:49 Run start, BG 97
15:51 Run end, BG 82
16:00 BG 92, deactivated Running Override in Loop
16:17 1.2U, BG 115
16:21 BG 121 (highest)
For @Nickyghaleb :slight_smile: :
Run time: 2 hours 2 minutes
Distance: 10.1 miles

I edited the image to add the “Running” text in red. Too bad Tidepool doesn’t include Apple Health info!!

I did not have any carbs after the run for re-fueling, so I need to work on this! I did have dinner early at 6pm so not too far off time wise for re-fueling but I know, probably not sufficient carbs! :frowning:

Apple workout shows 2 hours and 2 minutes running, a distance of 10.1 miles BUT the map it shows is not accurate! It has my start/end at different places! Still, I’m glad it includes the map so I can see whether it is consistent with the numbers!! The distance is probably closer to 12 miles.

Yesterday’s run was only for 1’37’’, and Apple shows distance as ONE mile, despite showing the map fairly accurately!!! :grimacing: I did stop a few times to check BG and to take a photo, but distance was certainly not one mile!! Go figure, not sure why the inaccuracy!

Another annoying thing about Apple Workout is that it doesn’t always record workouts! I did an 8 mile bike ride yesterday afternoon, selected Record, and Done on finish, but the workout is not shown in the Health app! :thinking:

Does anyone have any suggestions on how to get Apple Workout to be more accurate and ensure workouts are captured?? Perhaps I am doing something wrong? :thinking:

Also, my Tidepool chart shows a pretty significant low pre-breakfast, despite ZB by Loop, so I’m thinking I need to lower my basal from 0.5 to perhaps 0.45. I haven’t done this yet, but as I experienced this again this morning, I probably will lower the basal a bit tonight. I will also run autotune to see what it recommends. I haven’t run it since I began Loop. At that time, autotune confirmed my OmniPod settings but I have adjusted those a bit in Loop.

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Thank you. :hugs:

And your BGs look GREAT, right??? You must be happy with those?? And you held together well after the run??

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Yes, really happy with those numbers!!! Yes, BGs held up the rest of the day. Have had a couple of excellent days BG-wise! Yesterday, a non run day, I achieved 98% TiR, thanks to Loop. Of course, only to be sidetracked this morning by a slight roller coaster between low 50s and 140 :frowning: Today is a run day, so I expect it not to be a 98% TiR kind of day! We’ll see…

Today’s run went pretty well, though I did have a couple of slight (for me) lows down to upper 50s. I ended up cutting the run short because I started to go down a second time. Rather than be forced to eat, I decided to cut it short, since I was sure I would spike once stopped. But with Loop, I don’t seem to spike post-run like pre-Loop. I’m not sure why! But I like it!

11:05 Activate Running Override (Loop switches basal to ZB)
11:49 Run start, BG 71, drink 3/4 Boost drink @10g
12:09 3 Fruit Gummies, 8g, BG 60
13:23 Run end, BG 59, deactivated Running Override in Loop
For @Nickyghaleb :slight_smile: :
Run time: 93 minutes
Distance: 8 miles
After 6.5 miles I decided to apply @Nickyghaleb 's training technique, and add some repeats. I found a nice slope, about 1/2 mile, so I decided to do repeats of it. I started off okay but suddenly noticed I was going low. I was surprised because I had substantial carbs at start of run. Anyway, since I’m trying to keep in range as much as possible since I started Loop, I decided to end the run. BUT I liked doing the hill repeats. I think I will start incorporating those from time to time. Today was just a test, and only did 2 of them.

Here is my Tidepool from today:

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Today’s run went very well, no lows or highs!! Since I was on the low side, I ate half a small, banana at run start. This seemed to help because I only went down to 60 by end of run :slight_smile:

10:55 Activate Running Override (Loop switches basal to ZB), BG 89
11:58 Run start, BG 82, eat half small banana @10g
13:31 1 Fruit Gummies, 2g, BG 64
13:52 Run end, BG 60, deactivated Running Override in Loop
Run time: 114 minutes
Distance: 10.1 miles

Btw, @Nickyghaleb, I ran with my running partner today who wears a Garmin. It calculated duration and distance nearly the same as my Apple watch for this route :slight_smile:

Loop did a fantastic job!! I hope it keeps me stable through dinner and overnight, always hit-or-miss pre-Loop! It did last night as shown in the graph :slight_smile: This is one of my best days since I started Loop, with Time in Range of 97% and a Standard Deviation of 11%, still need to get through the night though!

Here is my Tidepool from today:

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Here is another post for my run today using Loop and OmniPod. I feel that Loop definitely helps control my BGs pre, during, and post running. For me, there is no doubt that my Time in Range and my Standard Deviation has improved over pre-Loop, and I think my Tidepool graphs show this improvement. Hence, this will be my last post in this thread on Running with OmniLoop. If someone would like me to continue with these posts please let me know.

Today’s run went very well, no lows or highs!! Since I was on the low side, I ate part a small, banana at run start.

11:50 Activate Running Override (Loop switches basal to ZB), BG 88
12:34 Run start, BG 79, eat part of small banana @12g
12:44 3 Fruit Gummies, 8g, BG 77
14:05 Run end, BG 95, deactivated Running Override in Loop
Run time: 90 minutes
Distance: 8.1 miles

Loop did a fantastic job again!!

However, this morning was a struggle, due to the fact that I changed my sensor at midnight. BG was 73, so I had 2 bites of a banana, maybe 6g?? I woke up 2 hours later high at 145, definitely higher than expected! I took a correction, and by 6 AM when I got up it was 65. Good, but the sensor seemed to be unstable all morning with readings jumping up and down sometimes 15+. I also changed my OmniPod today which usually causes my sensitivity to insulin to go way down. These all contributed to my low TiR, and higher SD :frowning: Nothing to do with Loop or running, but I need to find some better workarounds for these issues!! :grimacing: I’m thankful neither issues really caused problems with my run :slight_smile:

Here is my Tidepool from today:

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Not if it’s a lot of work for you, but I definitely enjoy reading them!

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I am so excited to read this. So glad it’s helping you with running and the day-to-day. Congrats!

Do you have a looping “how to” that you used to achieve this which you’d be willing to link to? I’m especially interested because you’re using Apple products if I recall. I’ve tried to talk EH into the Xdrip thing, but he’s unwilling to switch out of the Apple ecosystem.

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I also have been a long time, xDrip+ user on Android. I still use it because it enables me to view BGs, history, treatments, stats, etc, on my large display Android phone! I’ve set the collector to Nightscout Follower, so I can view most of the treatment data managed by Loop on Apple directly on my Android. :slight_smile:

However, when OmniLoop was released, I willingly switched to Apple and the Dexcom app as the collector. So now I usually carry two phones, iPhone SE (tiny phone) for loop which only has a data connection, and my Android phone with cellular voice connection.

Really, I just followed the excellent, online documentation for Loop:

https://loopkit.github.io/loopdocs/

I made plenty of mistakes and still make mistakes, but I read and re-read the docs many times, until I understood. The fine tuning and tootips on those pages are especially helpful in configuring settings for basal, isf, ic, dia. I learned from reading and trial and error with Loop that one’s settings are extremely important.

Also, the Looped Facebook group is great for sharing information and asking specific questions.

Good luck!! Feel free to ask any specific questions!!

Thank you! It’s not a lot of work and I don’t mind posting them, but I was unsure whether anyone found them useful!! I don’t want to be a nuisance!!

I’ll post maybe now and then when I feel like I’ve learned something new or useful related to running and Loop.

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It has been several weeks since I last posted here on Running with OmniLoop. I’m still using Loop (JoJo-beeps branch) with OmniPod, but each day may be different. I recently created a new, Overrides which gives me 20% of my scheduled basal (0.5U/hr) during a run, or 0.10U/hr. This is more or less equivalent to what I did pre-Loop. However, pre-runs are different since often times Loop will give me a few hours of ZB without me doing anything, or gives me differing amounts of basals. This can invalidate the Running tactic of 20% of basal (used successfully pre-Loop), and cause me to go high during the run. I’ve noticed this a few times. I don’t think that occurred today, yet I still went high during the run, eventually going from 95 (run start), to a high of 138. I ended up canceling my Override Running20% and resuming Scheduled Basal. Loop, however, counter acted the high with Temp Basals of up to 1.5U/hr - my max basal setting. Being impatient though, I eventually gave myself 1U towards the end of the run.

These times and distances are estimates today since I forgot my Apple Watch and could not log a Workout.

09:45 Run Start, Activate Running20% Override (Basal .10U/hr), BG 95
10:00 4 Fruit Gummies, 8g, BG 91
10:34 BG 114, Deactivate Running20% Override and resume Schedule Basal of 0.50U/hr
11:00 BG 138, 1U mg/dL
11:15 Run end, BG 127
Run time: 90 minutes
Distance: approx. 8 miles

Here is the Tidepool graph…

As shown in the graph, immediately after taking the 1U bolus I started to go down! I continued to drop (see RED in graph!) despite taking the 10g carbs but I did eventually rebound. to stable 89. What I’ve learned:

Be patient, be patient, be patient!! As @Eric advised @daisymae in Daisymaes Swimming, take each half hour at a time. I should have waited a bit longer before eating those 8g carbs at the run start, and definitely waited a bit longer before taking that 1U correction near run end! Overall, I’m okay with the run though since I was not low or high for the duration!! :slight_smile: I obviously need to work on things! Tomorrow is a beach day! I plan to do 10 miles on LI sand! :slight_smile: Hope it will be low tide!

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Today was a beach run on Long Island, in pretty great sand, with a nice breeze. Overall a great run due to the great location! :slight_smile: No bugs unlike my normal trail runs, too!

At run start, I activated a 0.10U/hr basal on Loop, and ate half a small banana. Unfortunately, I did not estimate pre-run carbs properly again today. I thought because it appeared that I was trending down to 78, I should eat. 1/2 banana was too much though. This is very odd because the last several runs, but not ALL, have had similar results - BG trending down, eat some carbs, then IMMEDIATELY spike on run start. I’m not sure why, maybe the G6 sensor (vs G5) is just quicker to respond??? YES, I’m using Dexcom G6 CGM for these BGs, not finger sticks since G6 (vs G5) seems to be remarkably accurate for me! I think for tomorrow’s run on the beach, I will not eat or eat only a small amount pre-run, and then just be ready with some carbs along the way.

One other note, at run end, I did NOT take a bolus immediately for the carbs. Not a good idea, and not something I usually do, but the graph shows the spike immediately after eating 10g! :frowning:

Here are the numbers, per Apple Health watch:

08:18 Run Start, Activate Running20% Override (Basal .10U/hr), BG 78, 1/2 Banana (10g)
08:39 BG 89, Deactivate Running20% Override and resume Schedule Basal of 0.50U/hr
09:00 BG 128, High for the run, but did not take a bolus; let Loop give 1U+ temp basals
10:16 Run end, BG 60
Run time: 1 hr 56 mins
Distance: 10.2 miles

Here is the Tidepool graph…

33%20PM

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Today was another beach run on Long Island, low tide with great sand and a strong breeze on the return run. Despite the slight highs, an overall a great run with a slight improvement over yesterday’s beach run with no lows today :slight_smile:

At run start, I activated a 0.10U/hr Overrides basal on Loop. Right away I started to trend down. I ate 4 Sports Bean 15 mins into the run, and either that was too much, or my temp basal of 0.10 was too low, because within 45 minutes I was trending high. I had to switch between the Override of 20% of Scheduled Basal and the Scheduled Basal of 0.5U. With the Scheduled Basal, it is up Loop what the temp basal will be. Loop gave anywhere from 0 to 1U for the temp. That mostly worked well, but I did eat another Sports Bean on the return just to be sure. So I am thinking for these types of runs, maybe I should either just leave my Scheduled Basal of 0.5U and have Loop manage it, or perhaps create a new Override of 50% of my Scheduled Basal. I’ll try these out in my trail runs this week.

08:51 Run Start, Activate Running20% Override (Basal .10U/hr)
09:16 BG 75, Deactivate Running20% Override and resume Schedule Basal of 0.50U/hr, 4 Sport Beans (about 8g carbs)
10:00 BG 127, High for the run, but did not take a bolus; let Loop give 0 - 1U+ temp basals
10:19 BG 111, 1 Sport Beans 1g
11:03 Run end, BG 71
Run time: 2 hr 06 mins
Distance: 11 miles

Here is the Tidepool graph…

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This is just a quick update on today’s run. Today was a very hot day - mid 90s with real feel in the 100s, but a nice, warm breeze :slight_smile: I tried to stay off the most buggy trails!

This time I used no overrides, no temp basals, just let Loop manage my basal to keep it in the scheduled range. Initially, Loop was giving 0.5U -0.6U/hr for most of the first hour as I had eaten 2+2 Sports Beans. Remaining run was at ZB. So overall, Loop did a fantastic job. I did dip down to BG 58 for a few minutes. I think next run I’ll increase my scheduled range a bit.

11:35 Run Start, BG 74, Scheduled Basal 0.5U, but Loop primarily gave ZB, 2 Sports Beans 4g carbs
12:15 BG 75, 2 Sport Beans 4g carbs
12:46 BG 72, 1 Sports Bean 2g
13:31 Run end, BG 61
Duration: 1 hr 53 mins
Distance: 10 miles

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I don’t know if part of this is because you are not getting full basal up until the time you start your run (if Loop is reducing it before your run start), but in general if I have any kind of reduced basal BEFORE a run I need a lot less carbs for any impending low. Once I have started running, I can eat the usual amount of carbs without a problem. But before I start, I only take a very small amount of carbs if I have any reduction in basal.

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Yes, this occurred to me! Frequently, Loop has already reduced my basal for a few hours before run start.

So I think you are right, I don’t need the carbs til later in the run. I’ve tried this out on the last couple of runs. It seems to work better, without getting the early spikes. Now I need to work on getting enough carbs during the run synced with what basal Loop gives me! :slight_smile:

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I can go with reduced basal before, or full basal before. Either one, different circumstances, just whatever works right for the day.

But I just have to know!

As long as I know what has been going on the previous hour or two, I am fine. I think the secret basal adjustments are not ideal for me.

Maybe “secret” is not the right word. I don’t know what the right word is. Invisible basal adjustments? Clandestine basal adjustments? Covert basal adjustments?

Are you able to get enough info from the Loop picture?