Exactly my thoughts, put way better than I could have put them. Cheap second phone is an option
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@bkh and @ClaudnDaye and @TomH
Can you guys tell me the main differences between FreeAPS (which I am using) and Loop3?
The loop website says things about Loop3 that I am not too keen on.
It mentions things like:
- Better alerts and notifications assist the user
- Fingerstick blood glucose prompts when data is stale
I want LESS alerts, not “better” alerts! I really want as little coming from my pump as possible. And I certainly don’t want it to ever prompt me for anything.
Can Loop3 be setup to just be a silent partner? To just sit there quietly and give me my basal, adjusting when I am in closed loop, and not adjusting when it is open?
When I read of “guardrails” and “new features”, it makes me cringe a little bit. I worked on my version of FreeAPS to get rid of as much “noise” on the screens as possible.
Can someone share the main screen so I can see what it looks like in comparison.
Thanks! I appreciate your insight!
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It’s shown on the first page of LoopDocs
There is a switch in loop settings to turn off the alerts. Unlike the Dexcom app, you really can turn them off.
I don’t notice an increase in the number or aggressiveness of alerts, maybe just some increased clarity. Do you really want to turn off the alert that says loop hasn’t completed successfully in 20 minutes? You can. For me, I’d rather take a look to see what’s wrong.
Rightfully so. I think the changes they made in tidepool loop to prepare for FDA submission make loop a bit more like a traditional pump in that it takes more keypresses now to deliver insulin, especially if it differs from the algorithm’s recommended dose. I’ve gotten used to it, though.
The guardrails are less of a problem. When I put in my settings for max bolus and so on I got some yellow and red triangles with warnings about how my numbers are unusual, but it didn’t stop me from using my numbers. The one where I did go into the code to change the threshold was the warning that pops up whenever I enter or modify a meal with 100g carb or more. The code’s warning doesn’t prevent a 150g carb meal, it just annoys me. The hard limit is 250g in a single entry. Both are easily changed in the code.
For the most part, the nature of the guardrails is “what you are doing is surprising; maybe reconsider what you are doing but it’s your decision.” And they mostly occur at configuration time, not during daily use.
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Thanks @bkh!
Can you still adjust the insulin duration?
No. They removed the Walsh model. Now you choose a model from among Novolog, Humalog, Apidra, Fiasp, or Lyumjev. And Afrezza is also an available choice when entering non-pump insulin to Loop — which is now best done in loop rather than in apple health. The current navigation for non-pump insulin is obscure, but not difficult: Active Insulin > Non-Pump Insulin > +
I suppose you could change the parameters for one of those models in the code, but maybe there are other knobs in the user interface to twiddle before resorting to that.
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I have customized the current Walsh model and currently it is set to around 2 hours.
No, not all of my insulin is gone in that time. But most of the significant amount is gone after that amount of time, so using 2 hours works best for me.
I would definitely need to be able to tweak the pre-built duration settings.
The nice thing about the Walsh model is that it isn’t linear! Not sure if the other ones are linear. But insulin does NOT deplete in a straight line!
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The loop developers are pretty adamant that insulin absorption is best described by the actual experimentally-determined absorption curves published by the makers of each insulin in their FDA approval applications.
The developers assert that there are lots of ways that a person can combine incorrect pump settings together so that the errors generally cancel out and the BG does what it should in that individual’s typical circumstances, but those incorrect settings can bite under atypical circumstances.
Personally I have no dog in that hunt, and I accept that whatever works is fine because loop is just a tool to get a result, and we have the liberty to try to make it do that however we choose.
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@Eric I haven’t used FreeAPS, just glanced at the docs a couple of times, so I can’t provide any comparison info. As to alerts/alarms, I get the standard Dash beeps/alerts (Dash, not Loop) when I’m loading insulin (letting me know minimum fill level), when its expiring (set table between 1-24 hrs, when it officially expires (@ 72 hrs), and when it dies (@80 hrs, 8 hr grace period). When it dies @ 80 hrs or when it malfunctions, you get a continual long beep that can be cut off by deactivating the pod using the Loop app OR a wire pushed thru the whole on the back of the pod which cuts the circuit board link to the speaker. You can also pretty well silence the pod by pressing your hand around the pod into the arm/leg it is on. Loop has “confidence reminders” that can be disabled for commands to bolus, cancel bolus, suspend, resume, auto adjust of delivery, etc. It also uses the iPhone settIngs regarding notifications (allow, banners, temporary or persistent). It most often uses its ability to make the pod beep. I get enough alerts/alarms from the Dexcom and I’m hoping (also understand from what I’ve read) the G7 is more confugrable to what constitutes and alarm.
The “guardrails” you mention I believe are visual warnings and/or limits when establishing settings above/below expected norms and a couple that would be contradictory. Anything generated by Loop itself, vice the pod or CGM, can be impacted/eliminated by changing the code.
Insulin duration is changeable by setting as an adult vs child setting and type insulin; otherwise it is only via a code change. I don’t believe the code is based on linear usage, its a curve based on a six-hour lifecycle, something I’ve thought of going in and changing as I’m more of a 4-hr person. Would that this was a setting.
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@Eric You could always build to a simulated phone on your Mac to test the code that you can see if builds and how it operates. Alternately, you could even contact Marion Barker to see how she’s testing using actual pods and phones with RaspberyPi devices and actual spare phones. Marion’s usually pretty helpful on such things.
I’m with @bkh, not having to carry the Riley/Orangelink is a definite plus! One of the reasons I chose to go with Loop and Dash was to minimize the extra “stuff” I needed to carry. I started with a Dash with PDM and having to carry both a phone and the PDM, while not the end of the world, was a burden I didn’t need. That said, I’ve got it infinitely better off than so many of predecessors…and I’m grateful for their development!
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Hi @bkh and @TomH and @ClaudnDaye ,
From what I have read, the latest version of FreeAPS would allow me to use the Dash pods.
So for me, the much faster fix is to get the latest FreeAPS, port my modifications over into my build, and then try to use it with the Dash pods.
A longer plan would be to get the Loop3 update, and try to start making my mods on that version. I know this will take much longer.
So I think it makes sense to just get Dash running with FreeAPS first, as that will be much faster for me. And then start the more time-consuming upgrade once I have that part working.
Does that sound like a reasonable plan?
Making the change to Loop3 AND Dash at the same time seems like a much bigger headache.
I mis-spoke and thanks to @bkh for pointing it out. In Loop 3, the default is one single mode, not adult and child, but the latter can be reinstated with a relatively simple code change that re-institutes the either or setting. See Customize your Loop - LoopDocs (click the link and search for “adult” or “child”.
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