Flat line, but that's not the point


Sorry to hear about the Celiac, a too common, but kind of sucky add-on for many diabetics.

So you are considered “low carb”, and have like many of us realized that this helps immensely with maintaining control

Our out of control diabetic brother of a friend eats 200-300 carbs per day, and hasn’t had an A1c below 13 for the last 6 years. uugh.


And the unfortunate thing is, she’s doing exactly what most of the medical establishment still instructs patients to with that diet… and she’s probably frustrated as hell that it’s not working…


Sadly, not frustrated enough. Has just turned in to an oblivious patient. The parents have even asked our son to try and coach him, which isn’t going to work on so many levels, i.e. my son has only had dia for less than 2 years, and their son has had it for 10+, and he is older than my son.

They are desperate, and I understand and am sad for them.


But if he wants to eat lots of carbs why would it not work to simply pump more insulin? I get that the diet itself may be unhealthy (diabetic or no diabetic) but strictly from a blood sugar point of view - can’t you just pump as much insulin as it takes? If you are straight and level at 250 BG then regardless of how you got there - doesn’t it just mean (at that point) that you need insulin?


in theory yes it should be possible to effectively chase around that many carbs with insulin… in reality for many people as they add more carbohydrates beyond a certain point it just becomes exponentially more difficult then they reach a point where the situation seems uncontrollable no matter how hard they try and they just sort of give up…


In theory I think it is possible, but he has had some terrible lows, and is deathly afraid of them, so he makes sure he never goes, low, by under treating his food, and living in the 250-350 range all day. His family can’t remember the last time he tested below 150. By observing him, I also think he enjoys the diabulemia and staying thin even though he eats terribly.


I think the problem with just looking at carb numbers is that it is only part of the picture. That number of carbs may be too much, too little, or just right, depending on the person. For your friend’s brother it may be too much, but it’s not the whole story. Part of it could just be poor insulin and BG management, or not being active enough. Is 300 grams too much? It really depends.

What you have said is true, but again it is only part of the picture. Lack of activity is an equal factor in obesity.

If the furnace is hot enough, anything will burn, even Big Macs.
-John L. Parker Jr.


Agree completely… it’s a multi factored complex shift in our culture that’s led us too the point we’re at, in my thinking. Ultra simple carbohydrates have been incentivized, overproduced, and regulated into public policy. During the same timeframe the sole-earner family has become essentially a thing of the past-- usually 2 incomes are needed to make ends meet-- which again pushes us toward simple carbohydrate convenience foods and sedentary lifestyle. Simultaneously as a society we’ve shifted away from physically demanding occupations and toward more sedentary ones. Add in smart phones, television, computers and everything else that further pushes society toward inactivity and we have the perfect storm. Along the same time we’ve still made time to more and more oversterilize our environments from natural immune system challenges, so our immune systems get bored and get into mischief… and we see many different diseases being diagnosed at unprecedented rates…

At least those are my theories. Someone who knows how should split this into a new thread…


This is similar for us – in a certain range. So from 50 -120 g carbs a day, giving him more carbs will not require more insulin overall. if we give him above that, then his TDD does start to creep up but he rarely wants that much food and that usually corresponds to him eating way more calories overall. For us, going too low in carbs induces insulin resistance.

Also, 40 g of carbs are not digested all at once for us, even simple ones, so we have to way underbolus for, say a slice of cake and give a follow-up bolus later. Sometimes (with simple sugars) the total dose for the food is less than the . carb count would suggest. High fat foods will require 80% to 100% more insulin over the course of 8 hours.


I think for women that number would be lower. Most non-tall, non exercising women only need 1200-1800 calories a day to maintain body weight… can’t imagine they eat more than 200g of carbs per day.


So looking at these plates, I’m positive i would both not finish all the food and also feel really hungry unless there was a tasty buttermilk biscuit on the plate


processed junk carbs also store easily and require less work to prepare, which is such a huge factor. Unless you want to subsist on beef jerky and cottage cheese, all the less carb-dense foods require cooking and they go bad.


I bet you’d be very surprised if you added up the number of carbs the average not diet-conscious woman eats… I suspect the vast majority of those calories would come from junk carbs

Even by the “healthy” food pyramid recommendations someone eating 1800 calories with 60% of them carb based would be eating 270 grams of carbohydrate / day

Amongst the not diet conscious I suspect the average calorie intake is more like 2500, with more like 80% from carbs (just my speculation) and that gives us 500 grams carbohydrate. (1 gram carb = 4 calories)

Then if we want to talk about the substantial number of significant overeaters… let’s say they’re eating 6,000 calories daily and 80% of them are carbs that gives us 1200 / day… these kind of numbers represent a significant portion of the population


So my thoughts on eating reasonable and trying to maintain a healthy weight:

  • Don’t eat out (restaurants / fast food)
  • Eat a full meal before going grocery shopping
  • If you don’t think you should eat it - don’t buy it

Yeah - that is about it. The rest sort of follows from there.


Kind of Michael Pollan light…not a bad way of working.


Amongst the not diet conscious I suspect the average calorie intake is more like 2500, with more like 80% from carbs (just my speculation) and that gives us 500 grams carbohydrate. (1 gram carb = 4 calories)

This is nuts for a woman. An Olympic gymnast like Simone Biles likely only needs to eat 2500 to 3000 calories a day, max, to power their elite-level training. Granted, gymnasts are tiny… but still nuts unless you’re running or swimming every day.

I have a hard time imagining how anyone could consistently eat 6,000 calories a day. When you look at lists of what Michael Phelps eats, it basically seems like there’s little time for anything else.


@TiaG Not so hard to imagine. If you have a “light diet” of Burger King French toast sticks and a Starbucks ventI Caramel macchiato for breakfast, a McDonald’s Big Mac, fries, and a shake for lunch, and a big plate of spaghetti with garlic bread for dinner, you’re at about 4,000 calories. Add the donuts at work and a couple of energy drinks and you’re getting real close to 6,000.


A lot of people are eating that much and more… your figures for how much a woman would be eating are based on calories in equaling calories out… looking around I see an awful lot of people taking in more than they’re using or needing. If everyone ate like you’re saying, we wouldn’t have overweight people and type 2 diabetes would be exceedingly rare

4 slices of Pizza Hut Supreme pizza from a medium pizza =1500 calories (or just over 2 slices from a large)… I know an awful lot of women who’d wash that down with a liter of soda and some cheesy bread sticks for another 1200 calories… bringing the total for a single meal that is considered pretty typical here in our culture to 2700 calories… pretty shocking when you really start tallying up this kind of stuff…

Then when we look at someone who “over eats”… maybe they have 5 large slices, the breadsticks and the soda and they’re up to 4500 calories for a single meal… A still relatively unremarkable meal here in the USA


This thread has been most interesting in that

  1. Many of us are eating healthier than the “average” American, diabetic or nondiabetic.
  2. Many members of this community are more informed or better educated about how certain foods affect our BG, or are moving towards making more “diabetic friendly” choices about food and BG management.
  3. None of us are malnourished by skipping the Big Mac and the supersized options. :slight_smile:

Years ago when I was diabetic during my first pregnancy, I was instructed to eat 150g of carbs daily and inject insulin accordingly. My recommended “eating plan” consisted of English Muffins, 1/2 bagel, Lorna Doone cookies, Stella Doro cookies…etc. That was then.

This is now. If I do eat any English Muffin, it would be half, and only on the rare occasion. A bagel or a doughnut is simply not worthwhile to chase the inevitable up and down in BG. How much time and effort do I want to spend addressing hyper or hypo glycemia? My treats, are, instead, dark chocolate, berries, whipped cream and real food, instead of processed or fast food. Everything in moderation. In all honesty, I feel better than I used to be. We are what we eat. 2 years ago, a Registered Dietitian, tried to have me work towards a 145 g carb diet, I asked her why and her response was that surely I do not wish to be malnourished or suffer from osteoporosis. Really?

Eating real food and lower carb is definitely more expensive than following the SAD which has a great deal of carbs. Sadly, until there is better education and information about nutrition, many will be truly malnourished, despite taking in several thousand calories and several hundred grams of carbs. I’m grateful that I’ve found this community. :slight_smile:


Hard to believe really. What possible link could there be between 50-80 carbs per day and Osteoporosis??
Especially if you are eating a healthy whole food diet.