I don’t know much about the subject of insulin toxicity, but I do know how sometimes two things are correlated and they shouldn’t be.
If the idea is that people who use more insulin are more likely to have more problems, I do not know if that makes sense. It might be that people who use more insulin may generally have worse control. I do not know. It may not be the insulin that is causing the problem, but the control. That is a problem with some of those reports.
It might be like saying - people who are using their windshield wipers are more likely to have a car accident. Obviously, turning them off in the rain is not going to help. There is a totally different reason for it.
It may be that insulin resistance is a good indication of generally poorer health… it may be that comparable conclusions could be drawn even amongst non diabetics-- like higher fasting c-peptide levels (which means more endogenous “insulin use”) could be associated with negative outcomes…
I guess Im just freaking out that after all the progress i made i seem to be at the beginning again - uncontrollable rising sugars that no amount of homolog can bring down. I started this morning at 100, Ive eaten half an avocado and 2 eggs for lunch, and a cup of cauliflower and a piece of salmon for lunch - which anyone would think is healthy - the blood sugar kept on rising - I have put in 30 units now already and its still 202. Baffling and soul destroying at the same time
Or it may be that insulin resistance is a good indication of insulin resistance. I know a very healthy diabetic who worked with my wife, and he needed huge amounts of insulin and was in good health.
Oh sure… could be all sorts of things just highlighting that one snapshot of a statistic doesn’t necessarily explain it’s true relevance or even if there is any.
Right. Some people take a lot of insulin because of poor health, but some people take it because they need it. I don’t think a blanket statement works for everyone.
I am not sure, but I got the sense that Robellengold’s doctor was making a blanket statement that taking a lot of insulin is bad. And I don’t agree with that.
I got down to 11 units a day humalog and 20 units a day for tresiba when i started (30g of carbs diet) - and the insulin absorption seemed fine - then 1 unit of H and it took me down 40 pretty consistently.
I am wondering if now what’s happening as I have started exercising and my calorie intake is not high enough my liver is dumping sugar to compensate. I’ve added up my daily calories and its about 1200-1400 on average - but I’m 6ft and should probably be on 1800 for 1lb weight loss. I’ve stopped losing weight as well for 2wks - so maybe my body thinks I’m starving it, is releasing the sugar to keep me going etc.The exercise is not helping as its using up more energy.
The only odd thing about it is that is after meals the rise is so consistent and persistent - but I read somewhere that if you are taking less calories, your body will become more efficient at converting the protein so its like basal sugar in that way and thats why it takes a lot more humlaog to get it started like when you are trying to adjust your basal… 3 different kwik pens so its not that
I’m going to try and put my calories up to 1800 first and eat more carbs vs protein and see what happens. Will stop exercise for a few days also
What’s the trend of your tdd been in comparison with your diet? I’m of the theory recently that after your body adjusts to dietary changes your tdd tends to drift back toward its baseline
Here’s another one also of the day from start to end - super odd - flat at night from the tresiba perfectly - then just climbs and climbs from the morning onwards and then gets to 200 and falls back down very slowly - hours after I ate the actual food in each case and such small amounts
Absolutely, and I speak from experience.
You all may remember the epic amount of insulin I was taking several months ago. The only thing that changed was I started eating a much lower carb diet.
Even at c. 80g/day I take a lot of insulin. 44u of Tresiba and about 40u of Novolog/ day.
A1c was in the 5.5-6.0 range when I was taking 75u of Toujeo and 125u of Novolog/ day. And my A1c continues to be 5.5-6.0 eating lower carb but taking less insulin.
And, btw, my very well published and highly accomplished endo who recently passed away told me to take as much insulin as I needed and not to worry about it, it wouldn’t cause any problems.
heres link to paper on ada website around double diabetes / insulin resistance etc.
it gives a formula for calculating insulin resistance
Seems to point to common sense again - keep your weight down / keep your a1c down / keep your blood pressure and lipids down and your risks are reduced - says double diabetes is bad which is obvious - and that metabolic syndrome risks increase if you go for tight control as insulin use will increase and you can put on weight as not peeing away all the calories - but that the risks are not worse than the benefits of improving a1c. very confusing !!!
Latest chapter in this story - I ran a test last night and through this morning / taking 2 units of humalog during my fasting period and asleep - 3 different pens from 3 different boxes and different needle types / different sites on body including one IM
Nothing happened each time - completely flat - 3 wks ago 1 unit of humalog took me down 60 in 3 hrs
I sent screen shot to my doctor and just spoke to him / he wants me to come in and be tested for insulin antibodies as he can’t think of anything else / don’t know much about it but he said sometimes type 1 can develop later in life and it stops a particular exogenous insulin from working effectively unless you take high doses so not insulin resistance something else - will keep everyone posted
Wow, I really feel for you. This is indeed a strange response. I hope you and your physician get to the bottom of it quickly. Nothing like diabetes to add additional stress to your life.
Yes, Ive been reading up on it - there are articles about it - apparently its common for antibodies to be generated when taking insulin, but the studies say not enough are there to make any impact - but the studies are rare so not enough findings. Given the amount of times i have read on here and elsewhere about type 1s who suddenly experience a problem where they are injecting and nothing happens and they wrack their brains for reasons that could cause it - it may be more common than is thought. Also doctors don’t regularly test type 1s who have had it for years for antibodies and will just blame injection site, or something else.
We’ll see - he’s going to put me on apidra which apparently protects against this and maybe some steroid. Looking back over my history - I can definitely see a pattern that would make sense on this - I am put on an insulin, and then eventually my doses start to climb higher and higher with no reduction in blood sugar and I end up taking massive doses - the doctor puts me on a new insulin and it all fixes itself and I lose dramatic amounts of weight as well and then a few years later it happens again. I can remember this happening 5 times when I was changed insulin - the first time was 2yrs in when i was 15 - I had gone from 6 units a day of actrapid in the UK to 100 units - they swapped me and I lost 30lbs in 2months and came back down to 8 units of the new one.
I saw that guy’s link…my impression is that a) he looks awfully orange which I’m sort of guessing is from all the fruits and veggies and b) the A1Cs he’s touting on his site seem a bit higher than what is routinely possible with low carb and c) my guess is that if you’re switching to very nutrient-dense, low-calorie, high fiber foods, you wind up taking in fewer calories, which on its own could lead to benefits such as weight loss and lower insulin use, but it’s not clear the high-carb diet itself is all that beneficial.
That said, I’m a bit of a low-carb skeptic in that I think at least a sizable minority of people experience what you do – i.e. low carb works for a while but at some point the body changes its gene expression to make it more efficient at converting your food into glucose, and at that point you wind up having increasing insulin needs and spikes, but at a much lower carb level.
