I’m late to the game, but only switched to Dash recently as I was waiting for the app AndroidAPS to support it. Using it with my regular Android phone is a great experience. The Bluetooth connection is reliable and I like not having to carry a separate device.
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@kalle Couldn’t agree more. I knew I didn’t like carrying the PDM, but didn’t realize how much until I didn’t have to! I recently switched to Loop on my iPhone now that it support Dash pods. Talked with Endo about trying O5, but have to agree with him my TIR and A1C probably wouldn’t improve much from what I’m getting with Loop and Dash.
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?? I would have supposed that O5 could not give nearly as good TIR and A1C as LOOP, which gives us more control over the insulin administration.
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@bkh It was just discussion I like to keep options open. I view my Endo doc as an advisor as he seems pretty up- to - date, though he said I’m his only patient on Loop of any kind. He commented he couldn’t say anything against a system with the results/numbers I have. He was very interested in seeing the app in operation and checking out the various settings screens. I took him a NightScout report as well.
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Is Loop with Dash pods pretty straight forward now? I’ve been trying Omnipod 5 and although it is an improvement over manual control of Dash pods my results so far are pretty underwhelming. I will give it a few more weeks but so far I’m not confident I will stay with the O5.
I’d like to give Loop a try but only have access to Dash pods, has Loop gotten past the beta test stage with Dash pods?
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@John58 It isn’t straight forward as in you download an app, install, and put in a few settings. The software is still considered pre-beta. There are at least a few of us here on FUD that have used or are using Loop with Eros pods (still possible), Loop_dev with Dash pods and iPhone, or AndroidAPS with Dash pods and Android phones; other versions are also available. The Loop_dev version is expected to become Loop 3.0 in the next couple of months, but that’s been being said for a couple of months. Once that becomes reality, the build process will be decidedly simpler, but will still require you DIY it. Looping with Dash and iPhone is only possible with the dev version, my understanding, and it takes a little more knowledge, effort, and time because of what’s involved. Unless you’ve been Looping for a while, use of the _dev version is discouraged because bugs/refinements of the code by developers will cause the need to re-build the app. There are some people that will help you build it and there’s no shortage of advice on Facebook groups (LoopandLearn, Looped, and others), plus a few websites (https://loop.zulipchat.com, loopandlearn.org), plus the GitHub where you download the code. However, the risk is re-building the program may be required at the drop of a hat. Building the program requires a Mac (Windows with vmware to mimic a Mac), Xcode, and using GitHub via the Terminal App. It’s also recommended you establish a Nightscout account, a MongoDB account, and a Heroku account for storing data and providing remote viewing of your Loop data/status (these are not required to use Loop, but highly suggested). I’m not a programmer, but was exposed to a couple programming languages years ago, so tried it out. I had some difficulty with my initial attempts, but had it working within 2 days of non-continuous effort using the LoopDocs (LoopDocs). All the above said, it’s very doable; you just need to go in eyes open. If you haven’t done it before, I recommend reading the LoopDocs a couple of times thru to decide if you’re up for it. I’m sure others here will have different perspectives, as usual, read, digest, and decide what’s good for you…
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Hum… I thought O5 required Android, or maybe Samdroid. Since I have a G10 sitting waiting for an endo to approve O5 for me could I use that with my current Dash pods and AndroidAPS to avoid the whole Apple developer nightmare? The only downside I see to that approach is that there is no learning in the algos, but I’m pretty sure I know my own basal so that might not be a problem. It’s not going to be worse for me that Dash assuming I can turn it off and just do the bolus calcs myself.
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I guarantee that Loop will be better for you than any off-the-rack suit you buy. As long as you are willing to be patient and work on making the adjustments to get it to fit.
Loop is great. Any target BG, any IC, any correction amounts. Pretty much totally customizable to whatever you want.
Yep, the downside is building it yourself. But you are a smart guy. You could do it pretty easily.
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Is AndroidAPS Loop?
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AndroidAPS is different from the iOS DIY Loop but still customizable as Eric describes, and supports small micro boluses. Building it is pretty straightforward for Android. And on the plus side, it integrates with xDrip+ so no need for the Dexcom app.
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@jbowler You’re right. I just checked the Insulet site and it indicates O5 currently requires one of about 10 different Samsung model Android based phones, with iPhone compatibility still in development. You can check the compatibility of your phone with AndroidAPS at: List of tested Phones — AndroidAPS 3.0 documentation.
You’re also correct Loop and AAPS, whether with Dash or Eros, do not have a “learning” function as yet. While the combo of devices is called an AID, its NOT “automatic,” its “automated”; you have to know, input and adjust over time your own basal rates, ICRs, ISF/CF. Testing/setting basal(s) is essential, then ICR(s), then ISF(s)/Correction Factor(s). I found ISF/CF a bit tricky, seems inverse of my expected logic. In moving to Loop (AAPS should be similar) and retesting, I’ve reduced my basal rate (≈10%), increased my ICR (≈30%, still refining time of day/meal content), and raised my ISF (50%); because two wrong numbers can make you think you’ve got it right, they can actually mask reality with semi-reasonable results, but also induced lows and roller-coaster days. I think a few people here on FUD said that in different ways…sometimes the light just comes on! (Note: Anyone elses numbers WILL LIKELY BE DIFFERENT!) Testing and adjusting my inputs to Loop significantly lowered my average BG, increased TIR, greatly reduced low frequency, reduced the amplitude of any roller-coaster effect, and increased confidence in keeping BGs lower without fear of going too low.
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Yes; very tempting, no Apple Developer account, no signing and no learning some weird new operating system. I’m assuming I can build it on Linux (I do almost all of my dev work there); I have been able to in the past, although building and maintaining the cross compiler was at time tricky. Anyway, it’s probably just Python (no compiler).
And being able to use xDrip+ again and drop both Dexcom and SugarMate (I use the latter for the xDrip+ functionality) is a really plus too.
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I bought the first phone they approved; the Samsung “Galaxy S10”. $250; less than the cost of a months supply of sensors. Amazon’s stocks were low and I wanted to get it before everyone else rushed in…
That’s a very good point. I’ve commented several times on the use of “basal” as a temporary bolus to cover slow adsorption foods and gluconeogenesis. It also seems to help a lot with overnight highs; I think that may be a consequence of slower adsorption of food overnight. What I like about the O5 is the apparent ability to learn this, but the real value to me is the ability to correct in response to rising BG without me being involved, even during the day.
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Nope, AndroidAPS is Java. Yep, linux shouldn’t be a problem. I built it on Mac and Windows in Android Studio.
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Hum. Ok, building is easy, I couldn’t get xDrip+ to work so I did BYODA (which is apparently a Dexcom app that communicates with xDrip+ and AndroidAPS as well as secretly sending the data back to Dexcom…)
Problem is I can’t see how to do a carb bolus… I can carbs, but there is no indication of whether this does or does not cause a bolus to happen; it looks like it might but the documentation is very very unclear (OpenAPS seems to assume boluses are entered on the pump, clearly impossible with the Dash, and AndroidAPS doesn’t even suggest how boluses get done on the Dash.)
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AndroidAPS by itself supports various pump plugins. So you also have to download, build and install the pump module for OmniPod Dash.
I don’t use OmniPod Dash myself so don’t have the build details but you should be able to find it on github. Also, i think @MarkP uses AndroidAPS with OmniPod Dash and could help.
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Dash is there by default - the build was pretty simple on Linux (Gentoo), though weirdly it insists on having access to my github account (AndroidAPS is publically visible on github, so an account is not necessary to clone it.) I ran the setup on Windows in parallel, but couldn’t get git to work (probably because my account uses public key certificates.)
I just found the answer to my question; the “carbs” button on the “overview” screen just records carbs, the “calculator” and “insulin” buttons actually deliver boluses. I still haven’t found a lot of the actual bolus, but it does appear in the IOB figure on the overview screen.
The new problem is that the thing seems to be locked down - fixed in “Open” loop mode - unless I set up a NightScout account and, based on past experience, that is way more time than building AndroidAPS took.
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Hmm, i didnt know this. I’ve been using Nightscout for several years even before I used Loop. I find it very useful. I think if you follow the documentation you will be able to set it up without issue. It is just a matter of setting up a free heroku account, free mongodb and pulling the code from github. I know with all of the accounts it gets to be a lot to manage but once configured there isn’t much further time overhead required.
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Indeed I could, but it is a royal PITA because it involves three separate accounts, two of which I definately do not want, and multiple sets of user-name/password. I’ve got past that step and am going to disable NSClient; I just changed the “API SECRET” to something invalid. Assuming AndroidAPS keeps working with not NightScout connection I’ll be able to delete the heroku and mongodb accounts.
I don’t know how anyone puts up with this; the app is treating me like an idiot. It’s requiring me to pass tests to enable features, which is ok, but requiring me to use NightScout to pass those tests is not OK.
The main problem I foresee ATM is that because it is locked in Open loop it beeps at me every few minutes to change the “basal” (it’s not a basal guys!) That can’t go on through the night so I may have to put the phone in the garage to get to sleep. That’s bad because I normally wake up at least once a night to alter the basal to deal with high/low blood sugar.
Fortunately at this moment I have my other phone still connected to my other G6 (I’ve got two implanted at the moment), so I should be able to get through the night without too much danger.
All this because some fool thought they could mandate passing tests.
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NS was very simple for me as well. The documentation built to assist in building all facets of loop made it a sinch honestly.
NS and all the “pills” of helpful information has been one of the things I found myself looking at most of the time. Being able to see remotely, for instance, that Liam’s phone needs plugged up, is a great benefit. All kinds of useful info in the pill boxes of NS.
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