Tidepool loop agreement with dexcom and Medtronics

[T1john]

Has anyone else heard of the new contracted agreement between tidepool loop, dexcom and medtronic. It will allow the new medtronic 780g to use tide pool to interoperate with dexcom g-6. It also has Bluetooth to integrate with Bluetooth devices such as watches, phones etc. And will allow for downloadable upgrades. I am not a Medtronic fan but this in addition to the operating parameters of the 780g sound pretty good. And they ( Medtronics) are looking for 350 people to participate in a 3 month in home trial of the 780g.

[bkh]

There are a few details available in a different post, plus a link to an article with some more information.

Tidepool plans to push out an FDA-approved version of Loop

The forthcoming 780G already has bluetooth, presumably for display on phones. It would be a straightforward firmware upgrade to add data access and dosing commands to the interface, of course followed by getting FDA approval for the ACE designation as you mentioned. The 780G is described at https://diatribe.org/news-medtronic-hypoglycemia-prediction-iqcast-sugariq-and-timing-next-gen-minimed-780g-closed-loop where they mention automated bolus for corrections, bluetooth, remote monitoring for …

[T1john]

I’ve read the articles, even Medtronics made a press release. I first heard of on the diabetic nerds utube video. I forgot to post links, have been really sick.

[christopherasnider]

Hi there. One point of clarification: Tidepool Loop will work with a future Bluetooth-enabled MiniMed pump, not the Medtronic 780G. You can read more about what this means for us (Tidepool) in this blog post: https://www.tidepool.org/blog/tidepool-loop-medtronic-collaboration. It’s a pretty great time to be us right now

-Christopher Snider, Tidepool Community Manager

[T1john]

Hey glad to see you back and recognize you from your news letters ( I am a tidepool user, and love it), I was going to say I am going to find link I read where the 780g was discussed as the pump, but I will take your word over what I read on other sites.

[Michel]

Thanks for the clarification, @christopherasnider. Realistically, what do you think the timeframe will be for both Medtronic hw and Tidepool loop sw to be ready?

[T1john]

The 780g is looking for participates for the in home trial now. They are looking for release next year, and are providing tidepool official support but no estimate for them that I have read. @christopherasnider will have better info.

[christopherasnider]

No word on timing for Medtronic integration at this time. One thing to keep in mind is that this future Bluetooth-enabled MiniMed pump will require an ACE pump designation from the FDA. Whatever the pump model is ultimately called, that’ll be something to key in on as we make progress.

[Dc53705]

I have read both the medtronic and dexcom press releases drom tidepool. The 2 big commitments/affirmations I wanted to see and don’t are:

1. a wide variety of interoperability. Seems like the tone of the press releases indicate I will be able to choose between the guardian CGM and the dexcom. I see nothing committing to patients being allowed to choose freestyle or eversence or other CGMs that may come on the market.

2. any mention of how much choice I will have in settings. People DIY looping now have choices in target BS and max auto basal and bolus rates. I see nothing committing to significant settings choices. A pump that allows me to target BS of 120 and 150 for excercise and tries to achieve those values with changing bolus and basals by pre-determined miniscule amounts are of no value to me.

[christopherasnider]

The plan for Tidepool Loop is a fully interoperable system supporting multiple pumps and CGMS, but those agreements and conversations take time. As excited as we are with the state of things right now, we’re still hungry for more. As there are more agreements made, we’ll share those developments on tidepool.org/loop - we’re doing our part to engage with everyone. As Howard Look, our CEO stated at DData '19 last month, “our dance card is not yet full”.

To your other statement, you should review the documentation we’ve submitted to the FDA regarding Tidepool Loop, specifically what will and will not change from DIY Loop to Tidepool Loop. You can see all of our FDA documents we’ve submitted and discussed thus far at tidepool.org/loop in the section with the header “Open and transparent” under FDA Pre-submission Meeting, June 17, 2019. Bottom line, you will be able to customize your targets.

[Trying]

@christopherasnider

Bottom line, you will be able to customize your targets

Thank you for the link, and for the transparency! This is great to hear as I am already a Loop OmniPod user!

Is there by chance an estimated release date for the Tidepool Loop for Dash yet?

[christopherasnider]

No ETA for Tidepool Loop at this time. When there’s news to share, we’ll post updates everywhere, including, primarily, tidepool.org/loop.

[Nickyghaleb]

So if the 780G is slated for 20/21… then this partnership is probably a good 3 or more years away?

[christopherasnider]

I don’t follow your logic. Our agreement has already been signed, and work is underway. What I don’t have is information on the timing of the Medtronic pump that will work with Tidepool Loop.

That said, as a Tidepool employee and a person living with diabetes, I would hope that a company as big as Medtronic can walk and chew gum at the same time.

[Thomas]

@christopherasnider

I don’t follow your logic.

The launch of the 780G is not possible prior to April 2020 per Medtronic and some realistic assessments put the launch of the 780G into calendar year 2021.

The concept that Medtronic would divert any resources away from the 780 launch is simply not plausible.

Hence I find @Nickyghaleb to be quite logical in an assessment of 3 or more years away for an actual product launch (ie - new Medtronic Tidepool integrated pump) although I might argue 4 or more years (in calendar year 2023) is a reasonable probability.

[Nickyghaleb]

@christopherasnider

I don’t follow your logic. Our agreement has already been signed, and work is underway. What I don’t have is information on the timing of the Medtronic pump that will work with Tidepool Loop.

I miscommunicated. I meant the actual product—not the agreement—would probably not be ready then if the 780G is next in line, and the pump you all will be working with is in the earliest stages of design.

@Thomas

The launch of the 780G is not possible prior to April 2020 per Medtronic and some realistic assessments put the launch of the 780G into calendar year 2021.

The concept that Medtronic would divert any resources away from the 780 launch is simply not plausible.

I was thinking this. Thank you, @Thomas.

I ask because the people in my group seem to understand this as being right around the corner, but sounds like it’s maybe a couple of corners away.

[dm61]

@Thomas

divert any resources away from the 780 launch is simply not plausibl

780g is already Bluetooth capable. I think you substantially overestimate the resources required for Medtornic to receive ACE designation for a variant of 780g, which is an already developed product. The launch probably depends much more on market timing and synchronization with Tidepool Loop approval than on any new pump development. A wild guess: two years from now, maybe? Of course, we are all just guessing randomly, no one really knows.

[Thomas]

@dm61

I think you substantially overestimate the resources required for Medtornic to receive ACE designation for a variant of 780g, which is an already developed product.

There is much more than ACE required. It is already publicly stated that the 780g is NOT the pump which will have Tidepool integration. It is true the 780g is developed however the clinical trial is only now getting underway and AFAIK is not yet fully enrolled.

I still think @Nickyghaleb projection of 3 years is quite realistic although I feel that a slip to 4 years would be very likely.

Perhaps at some point Medtronic will decide to provide a concrete timeframe with a month and year. I think they probably will not. Ultimately, time will tell.

I am not randomly guessing but rather using timeframes that I see from various companies in how long they have R&D to Market. I consider this to be an educated ballpark approximation. And am sticking with 4 years for my ballpark.

[Dc53705]

We can talk about promises and press releases all day long, but I feel like most of us will quite simply refuse to discount our EXPERIENCE as the most valuable teacher.

Obviously we can all relate our experience with individual companies. In addition to that though, the bigger question in my mind is usually ‘how much will big business / big money / big liability, muddy the waters and cloud the way to the original goal.’

[christopherasnider]

I’ll respectfully leave you all to speculate on the timing of things. Until you hear from Tidepool about a release date, anything else is pure conjecture. Hopefully, we’ll be able to exceed your collective expectations on this one.

To some of your bigger concerns, you can see our plans for Tidepool Loop, including everything we’ve shared with the FDA thus far in the Open and transparent section of https://tidepool.org/loop. Medtronic has signed on to this vision, but we’re building the software, they are building the hardware. At the end of the day, it’s still Tidepool Loop.

But, until we deliver, we haven’t delivered. I hope we are able to make believers out of all of you here, and across the diabetes community when it’s showtime.