FUDiabetes

DN’s Running and Other Mishaps Thread


#585

This, and what @Nickyghaleb said about incline, our absolutely fascinating to me.

We live in an area with rolling hills, and when I recently started running, I realized that nowhere in our county is flat! It is possible to do some runs that are flat, but many of them include some pretty big hills. Which means that EH is running up hills frequently BUT NOT ALWAYS, and I wonder how much of a difference this makes it his blood sugar. Fascinating! Thank you FUD! I literally never thought about it. Especially because I didn’t run until recently, so it never occurred to me how much harder running up the hill is than running on a flat place. (EH and I both prefer trail running, as opposed to running on city streets. Plenty of trails in our area, so that is where they’re running happens generally.)

Anyhow, thanks to you guys for bringing that up. Something to consider anyhow.

It does sound like @Eric has decided that it was probably not work out related - Nicky’s 245.

Hey, @Eric - theoretically, could an incline influences post run BG?


#586

Yes. Inclines increase both the intensity of the workout, and also use larger muscle groups.

The result of an inclined run versus a flat run are:

  1. If the incline increases intensity a small amount during the run, it can cause more of a BG drop during the run.

  2. If the incline increases intensity a significant amount during the run, it can cause a BG spike during the run (cortisol response!).

  3. Since inclines use larger muscle groups, you end up using more muscle glycogen, and that will cause post-workout BG to drop more.

So it’s not even theoretical, it’s real!


#587

Wow! Thanks! I am passing that along. :smile:


#588

I’m getting dangerously close to sleep-post time, so I’m going to try to drop this in here and get out before doing anything weird. :smiley:

Today. Went on the treadmill and ran 2.5 miles in 25 minutes. My BG starting was a little high but not too bad… I actually can’t remember anymore, but I think it was about a 180. It was only that because I had a coffee during volunteering this morning with regular sugar and apparently didn’t get enough insulin. Anyway, I got back off the treadmill at a 155. I didn’t do any kind of Zero Basal or anything because I’m back on MDI. So I was just prepared to eat sugar had I needed to. What else? … I did a couple of cadence checks along the way and was between 94-97… which is the equivalent to a number I can’t figure out right now because my brain isn’t interested, and… oh, yes, there was some pretty intense pinching in my spot today. No hip pain though, so … That.

Danced for 15 minutes after the run.

I think that’s all we talk about, right?


#589

:thinking:


#590

Today:

50 minutes
5.4 miles
Starting BG: 188 :grimacing:
Finishing BG: 87
Overall I felt great, and so did my hip. There was the pinching again today though— both upper inner thigh and back right hamstring. Also, I know my left hip is not the concern, but I’m certainly feeling a lot over on that side. Regardless, things went well.

I am back on MDI again, and I wanted to ask if you could give me a kind of a tentative plan for getting my starting BG right. Everything was looking good until about 30 minutes before starting, at which point I decided to have 15 grams of carbs in hopes of giving myself a good bump since I had no way of turning off my basal. My BG when I had the carbs was a 102. So I succeeded in giving myself a bump, but I hadn’t meant for all of that. Too soon in advance??

I have my gait analysis this Wednesday and will work on setting up an appointment to get my MRI read. Oh, and I did periodic cadence checks— just to give myself something to do— and they were anywhere from 192-198.


#591

A lot of it depends on how much basal you have and how long you are running.

I am not a big fan of starting that high. If you can be around 100 and level when you start, that’s great. Because then you can take a few carbs right when you start and those will be translated into quick energy.

Without being able to cut basal, you will have to take more carbs than you normally do. But waiting until right before you start can prevent that BG pop up. If you are on the treadmill, you can take carbs as needed throughout the run, a little at a time.

So in this exact same scenario, maybe 15 carbs right at the start, and another 15 carbs 2 miles into the run could have provided you the necessary amount.

Remember, if you start lower, you will need more total carbs, than if you start higher. And remember to keep an eye on your BG and take a bit before you need it.

For example, once you are able to test as you run, if you start at 100, and 2 miles into it you are at 80, that means you need carbs. If you are still at 100 after 2 miles, you are probably in good shape.

Those are the things we can work on a little bit.

Try for these 3 things - 1) no IOB, 2) level BG, and 3) in range. Do not treat a 100 far out (like 30 minutes before the run). Treat when you start. If you treat it too soon, you will be rising and out of range. If you treat when you start, your body will take that glucose and give you energy.

If you time your runs at the end of your Levemir duration, you will be able to exercise with less basal. I know this is not always possible, but if you keep in mind when you did your Levemir injection, and consider the 8 hour cycle you are on, you can get an idea of if your Levemir is fading out.

If your Levemir is ending, you need less carbs. And if it is not ending, you will need more carbs. So a lot depends on the timing.

Very good!

Also very good!

I will keep you off the inclines. That may have inflamed it a bit.

This week we will do flat and easy and see how you are on Thursday.


#592

Important question - this past week how did you do with core and stretching? How many times?


#593

Sorry— was coming back around to comment on your stuff from last night.

This week I did core 4 times and stretched 5. I’m stretching today through…


#594

Stay with your stretching (x6) and core (x4) work!

Stay patient.

Week 2:
++++++++++++++++++++++++

Monday, 12/3
35-40 minute Easy Run
9:00-9:30 pace


Tuesday, 12/4
35-40 minute Easy Run
9:00-9:30 pace


Wednesday, 12/5
Rest day, stretch and core only


Thursday, 12/6
TBD. Let’s see how your hips are before working this day. Keep me up-to-date.


Friday, 12/7
25 minute Recovery Run
10:00 pace
(nothing more!)


Saturday, 12/8
45-60 minute Long Run, depending on how you are feeling
9:30-10:00 pace


Sunday, 12/2
Rest day, stretch and core only


#595

So I had a great run, but my BG was all a mess. Maybe you can help me figure out why…

Here are the details:
I went out at 11:30 am for my run. Before leaving, at around 11:00, I was just under 100. Good BGs all morning. When I tested before walking out the door, I was at 99. My Dexcom showed a 123. By the time I got to the start of the run (a half mile walk away), my Dexcom was saying a 179. I didn’t think too much about it. Oh, I did have a big banana just before heading out the door— like maybe 3 minutes before leaving. Anyway, Dexcom showed my BG climbing the whole run, and when I returned home I was at a 208. I know you don’t do these CGMs during your runs, but I have my stuff hooked up, so I’ll tell you Dexcom showed me as high as a 240 during the run and Spike showed me at a 298. Anyway, I got home, did a 3 unit IM correction bolus and jumped on my trampoline for 5 minutes or so. An HOUR LATER I was back down to a 160. I did do my Levemir an hour early this morning— around 5:30– and I did do 18 units instead of 19, but… those are some seriously lousy numbers, and I was a little bummed.

The run was nice though. 4.5 miles in 40 minutes outdoors. The weather was beautiful, but there was a decent wind which made me work. I did my cadence checks, and everything looked good. And hip is good.


#596

So the banana was maybe 15 minutes before your run, right? And maybe about 30-35 grams of carbs?

I think that is a lot of carbs with no insulin…

It always depends on circumstances, but in an identical situation with a flat BG around 100, maybe 1/2 a banana right before you started would have been okay.

What sugar are you bringing with you on the run?


#597

All of this is great though!


#598

I can hardly remember any more what I did yesterday, but it was good… I do remember that.

Today I went for the Gait Analysis as I’ve been threatening to do for a couple of months. It was really very interesting—- though left me still with almost as many questions as I had going in. At some point, I might just need to get to the it is what it is part and stop asking. What I went in with was questions about hip pain, inner thigh and hamstring pinching, numb feet, and as part of that discussion, I was asked about my medical history… which was like pull up a chair :roll_eyes: My medical history, at this point, includes S1/S2 cysts, neuropathy, history of brain surgery to minimize presence of a collection of spinal fluid that went from my C4-T10, and… some kind of hamstring injury. The evaluator today said it all could be contributing— or could’ve contributed at some point— and the first thing he recommended was a case manager of sorts. Because without one, I’m playing whack-a-mole. Which sounds about right.

So the major findings were that I do have scoliosis (which the last ortho mentioned, and I decided he was crazy and wouldn’t be going back), and it is significant enough that it is messing up how my feet strike. I also have core instability on par with that which his patients with Cerebral Palsy have. This is where my history of spine stuff came in. We worked on some exercises to try to address this, and I couldn’t do them. Yet— obviously. So the theory is that I’ve possibly never had any kind of core awareness with the spine issues, and to that I say, sure. Maybe. I have had pain in my hips with running since I was a child. The more important question is what can I do about it?

He sent me home with some very interesting exercises that were unlike the core exercises I’ve done up till now, so I will start them tomorrow, assuming I’m not so sore from today that I can’t move. There were breathing exercises and a few exercises to try to get my hips in the right place… and my mid-section is all a wreck, so I’ll start working on it. As far as whether or not this will stop the pain from coming back, he said he couldn’t guarantee it, however, the way things were getting jammed with each foot strike, he said tendon and ligament injuries were highly likely. And I’ve been going to Kevin every week for a probable “tendon injury”, so maybe.

About my cadence… he commented on that before we talked about anything else at all. He said, “I can see someone’s been coaching you with your cadence.” Yes. He said it was a good thing because that will help me in the long run, but that for today’s testing purposes, it would make things look better—but only superficially. That I’ve done a great job increasing the cadence, but that I haven’t addressed any of the underlying problems. This wasn’t to say it was a bad thing— I just need to try to correct these other issues as well. From here on out, I should continue striving for that high cadence and postural changes. My new goals for posture include a more controlled (level) hip position with less of a stiff leg extension. My goal in addressing it is to try to get my position right even for a minute or two, say, at the start of every new song. He didn’t think I was going to be able to do it for 4 miles straight, and that is okay. However, I should be at least attempting to fix it at regular intervals throughout my runs, and I should be building on that.

He could not read my MRI, but he was going to look into a recommendation for a good ortho specialist in my area and would get back to me…

That’s… oh, and dancing— is probably not helping. Lots of load into the hips and … yeah. He didn’t say I couldn’t do it, but it is best, especially while I attempt to recuperate, to avoid more than a casual couple of songs. :confused: And, that’s okay. I can certainly enjoy a couple of songs and then cut it out— and get my exercise-exercise from running.

So that was the gait analysis.

Yesterday, I was really tired by the time I was getting near my run (it had been a full morning of volunteering at the school), so I decided I was going to have my coffee even though I know better. I was about 45 minutes from my run still, and my numbers were looking great, so I had a coffee and then danced 2 songs. :grimacing: I was very happy about this yesterday, as it really worked well for my numbers, but after today’s stuff, I’m sure it probably won’t be a great solution for the future… and I really did think it was a great solution for the future. So coffee 45 minutes before my run, 2 songs of merengue, and then I timed everything else really well— I was 100% ready to run by the time I had my banana, which I ate, dropped peel in the trash, and got on the treadmill. My BG at start was about a… 138? I can’t remember for sure, and it was about an 85ish at finish. I ran 4.75 miles in 40 minutes. Some pinching but hip was good.

I feel like I need to rest, this post was so long… All in all, a good couple of days, and tomorrow I get to run again. But probably not pre-run-dance. :smiley:


#599

This whole thing sounds like it was tremendous. I am so glad you went.

Make the core work he gave you a priority! And all of this stuff, like just focusing on changing your form a little bit at a time for each run - all of that is great and makes perfect sense. Like at the start of each song, that is wonderful stuff.

Garmin also makes some watches which tell you your vertical oscillation. Did you discuss that, a reduction in vertical oscillation? And you can also get some tools that would allow you to compare your left and right ground contact time. Did you discuss anything like that?

https://www.amazon.com/Garmin-010-12520-00-Running-Dynamics-Pod/dp/B06XQ4KCVL/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&qid=1507143299&sr=8-2&keywords=garmin+pod&linkCode=sl1&tag=thewirrun-20&linkId=c9f3f1df3c2684947d1110940d71fd01

Anyway, all of this is wonderful!

Keep it easy tomorrow (Thursday). Stay with the easy pace, and hold it to 4 miles. Let’s get your form cleaned up a bit in the next few weeks. Stay patient.

Great stuff!


#600

Did 4 miles, 9 minutes a mile. True 9 min a mile. :smiley:

I worked on tilting my chest slightly downward (that was what he said should be the first thing I do) and tilting forward. It felt awkward, but every time I went back to my normal upright, extended leg, heel-hit stance that is mine, that felt wrong. So I was stuck between awkward and wrong, but that’s great. I was able to do it for most of the run only because every time I pulled back up, I could feel the jarring. Oh! And I did almost the entire run without any pinching… the only time I really felt it was about 3 miles in when I really started to come undone a little, but as soon as I felt it, I got myself together again, and it stopped.

My starting BG was a 164, and I finished at an 85… aaaannnd… I did my exercises at the end.

I’m off to pick up my children…


#601

We didn’t, but I’m curious… what is that??

No. We didn’t talk about that either.

He did say, for any parents of gymnasts in here, that his ex-gymnasts that go onto running are the hardest ones “to put back together”. I wouldn’t call myself an ex-gymnast necessarily, but I did do gymnastics almost 4 days a week for 6 years. Hyper mobility is the problem, and it is true for me, too. Sorry, I’m still remembering some of what he talked about yesterday, and he did say that his patients with a gymnastics background had the widest spread pain with running. Very interesting. And I think I’ll reconsider putting my 5 year old in a class. For now.


#602

@Nickyghaleb I would quote you, but I’d have to quote the whole post about your gait analysis. I am glad you went – it sounds like it might reveal some of the things that are going on with you. It’s so fascinating! I had no idea there could be so many things that go into moving your body. I mean, I guess I knew there were, but holy crap! It makes me kind of not want to get out of bed. What if I hurt myself?! :rofl:


#603

@TravelingOn… you’re running now, right?? How’s it going?? And how are your belly and foot? :smiley:


#604

58 minutes today. 6.3 miles. Longest run since I’ve been back. Worked on angling my cheat rifht, my cadence, and driving through the legs. It feels different, and my thighs are getting tired faster, but I think that’s okay. I think it’s right. My BG was pretty messy. I started at a 194 (my family started doing the Christ as tree right as I was ready to head out :woman_facepalming:), ate 8 sugar tabs, and still ended at a… well a 95. But what happened between that 194 and 95 wasn’t pretty. Either way, it’s done, and I’m very happy with how it felt.

Off to go fix the Christmas tree. :grin: