It is 100% possible for vegetarians to get enough protein in their diet without needing to buy meat replacement/substitutes, and just by eating regular food.
The guys behind Mastering Diabetes (one is type 1) essentially advocate for a vegan diet to control blood sugars. I like dairy too much to give it up, but it’s a good theory and seems to work well for a lot of people.
I really don’t like fake hamburger meat. But I got some fake meatballs and made a meatball sandwhich with mozzarella and tomato sauce on a subway style sandwhich. It was fantastic, but I got pretty sick. I need to reintroduce protien slowly, I think.
Milk might be key. That’s a good source of protien. It’s tricky because I only have a mini fridge. I’m figuring it out.
Have you tried these? You think these are better for BG stabilization?
Over the last few years (since 2010) I’ve tried variations of high protein and high fat diets along with zero carb (“keto”) diets and OMAD (One Meal A Day).
They all work. In my case this is at least partly because I pay more attention to what I’m eating and tend to bolus more accurately.
I’ve also at least mentioned these “fad” diets to my endo. He didn’t much care. He didn’t care about my annoying (to me and my wife) habit of scarfing down peanuts late at night; high protein and high fat.
What I did find is that the peanut thing does not help me; it sends me high overnight and I have to wake up (I always do) and rage bolus (I often do) to bring my BG down. OMAD was the best; maybe I got a high afterward but it was manageable and it only happened once a day.
Keto worked fine but it caused me to get annoyed at supermarket checkout stands which had those magazines with “keto” cooking which involved way more carbs than I would ever consumed, keto or not. I did learn quite a bit about how many carbs there are in stuff like coffee (a lot; it’s a bean) and vegetables; it is necessary to cut back on the veggies a lot.
But yes; eating less reduces hunger.
For me exercising more (a lot more) also reduces hunger.
Both of these things (more exercise, less food) reduce my insulin resistance but the biggest effect by far is the massive reduction from significant increases in exercise level. I don’t have enough experience but I suspect the “massive” part of that is temporary; if I did, in fact, keep up that exercise level my metabolism would, I think, level off and my insulin resistance, while lower, wouldn’t be that low.
So if a GLP-1 [receptor] agonist reduces appetite and, as a result, food intake then I would certainly expect it to lower insulin resistance in those of us with higher than minimal food intake (e.g. me but not necessarily @Terry ).
I guess that is, in fact, testable; what happens when people with low but sufficient calorie diets, where the calorific intake is close to the minimum to sustain life when they take GLP-1s? Show me the research… Alternatively what happens to the insulin resistance of people who take GLP-1s but continue to consume their previous, stable, amount of calories?
Note that I am not dissing GLP-1s; I know full well that my T2, never overweight, eldest brother-in-law has been doing nicely with the one he is taking. Whatever it is doing it is helping him deal with the problems of reduced mobility (seriously damaged back) and, perhaps, lack of exercise.
That’s my current conclusion for GLP-1s; they really are a useful tool for many people but they are not a solution in themselves, rather a means to a solution which might otherwise be unattainable.
Absolutely not for me. Anything with that amount of corn/wheat in it would be a disaster on wheels for me. I perhaps should have pointed out in my previous post that I don’t eat the staples; that’s not Office Supplies, that’s wheat, corn[maize], cassava, manioc, potato, rice (my wife’s favourite). These all have highly concentrated complex carbs which go through me like a bunch of salts; straight into my BG.
If you find a really good place for tofu you might like that; I’ve only liked it once and that was in a tofu restaurant in Soho (London), boy that was good. It tasted just like meat/insects. They did not seem to add a whole load of sugar, at least that is what my BG seemed to say (I did check).
The one reliable source of protein that many vegetarians accept, perhaps grudgingly alongside the leather shoes, is fish. Fresh or frozen fish, however, has carbs because the protein has not gone through rigor mortis. The same applies to the molluscs and shellfish in general; it’s protein but it does have carbs.
That said the carbs are small and, for me, don’t cause a significant high. My rule-of-thumb is about 2% by weight but you won’t find that in food data central because the decomposition happens very rapidly, within a few hours (it’s rigor mortis). That said here is a shellfish link from FDC:
https://fdc.nal.usda.gov/food-details/174216/nutrients
That comes out at 4% which is comparable with most vegetables and fruit.
For me, and every one of us is unique, I’ve found that I can do a full green-veggie and fruit diet (no chips, no rice) and I do great. I can eat 'til I burst (well, shortly before). It’s the volume; meat/green-veggies/fruit run around 5% carbs by weight but the volume (the other 19 of the 20x weight) is very, very filling.
All the same, still sign up for the gym if you can afford it; it is far more socially acceptable, even if it is also far more expensive. A better option for those who can do it and put up with the stress is cycling to work; I walked home from school when I was a newly minted diabetic but after the age of 18 I just cycled everywhere I could (it was compulsory at Uni…). It takes a certain attitude.
Have you thought about cottage cheese? You can get 26 grams of protein in a 1 cup (8 ounce) serving. Not everyone can eat dairy but since you mentioned milk, I thought I’d ask.
I have heard that GLP-1’s affect your feeling of satiety and help reduce hunger and the desire to eat high calorie foods. And they also slow your digestion so you feel full sooner, and the full feeling lasts longer.
I wanted to ask if any of you who are taking a GLP-1 have noticed this.
I bought some yesterday. I love it. My cat loves it. Win, win.
I think you actually ■■■■ your pants if you eat, say, a bannana split from Dairy Queen. But lets get confirmation from the others.
I think it’s actually more extreme than that. People loose their interest in smoking and drinking. That’s where the impacts of the drugs make me most uncomfortable, like how do they change your brain and your body?
Definitely true for me. The “food noise” is much better - I don’t come home and immediately head to the kitchen for a snack EVERY TIME I walk in the door. I’m more satisfied with smaller portions and don’t keep thinking about what I can eat next. I’m 5’ 7” and my highest weight was around 185 (in college). I’ve been on glp-1s for 11 years and am now 145 (but really needed to still count calories to get to this point).
These changes are good. As diabetics, there are other hormones we aren’t making than just insulin, and these meds help balance out what’s missing in our brains and bodies. On a different note, why wouldn’t someone who wants to quit smoking, drinking, gambling, etc want to use a miracle drug like this?
Hey, @jbowler, while I appreciate coffee is called a “bean”, it is actually the seed of a fruit (my father-in-law grew Kona coffee in HI for several years, the fruit results from the coffee flower which fruits when pollinated and produces the “bean”) and you’d have to consume the whole thing, or nearly so, for there to be “a lot” of carbs in it. A cup of coffee actually contains less than 1g of carb. I understand it may have a carb effect on some people, but it isn’t everyone and may be more a FOTF factor or something else than the coffee consumed. Example: I usually have two cups of strong coffee without other carb source (OK, I put in fake sugar, Stevia or Splenda). I sometimes get a slight rise in BG during the time, but I can’t attribute it to the coffee because I’m changing my whole attitude (asleep vs awake, standing rather than lying down, active vs passive, etc). I don’t doubt that some people likely have other experiences, but just as many don’t have those experiences. My point: Let’s not give things characteristics that other’s may run with.
Lastly, why cut back on vegetables? I’m a dedicated omnivore, both meat and plants. I may draw the line at tree bark as a source, but love a good salad of romaine, carrots, cucumbers, tomatoes, and other vegetables…and, yes, a little ham or pepperoni once in a while! My thinking is well rounded diet of everything! 
@TomH,
For some reason coffee spikes me. It happens in the afternoon or evening too, so it is not just from waking up in the morning. (But I agree this may be a factor for many people.)
And I do not get a spike from other caffeinated drinks, so it’s not just the caffeine.
It’s a strange thing, something about coffee. And nobody has really been able to explain the reason.
Bear in mind that the sentence is in the context of a keto diet and a keto diet means no, or closed to no, carb intake; the aim of keto is to cause gluconeogenesis which is a process whereby glucose is synthesized within the body. I think technically synthesized from protein (glucose also results from fat breakdown (catabolism) but a lot of other things happen there).
Here’s Starbucks nutrition page:
I think that’s for one shot but I’m not sure (last time I checked). The UK PDFs here give more precise information (because they do not round to the nearest gramme)
So that’s not a big deal on a keto diet if only one is consumed but…
Because it’s a keto diet and the aim of the keto diet is to produce gluconeogenesis. That does not happen if we consume any significant amount of carbs. Some people say that less than 50g/day works but for me, at my exercise levels, I had to go to around 25g or lower.
That rules out tubers and the some seeds in general (e.g. wheat, as normally prepared). I don’t eat those (tubers, staples) anyway. Keto doesn’t fully rule out on vegetables or fruit, but I eat a lot of both with my regular diet so for keto I had to cut back a lot.
My rule of thumb for veggies and fruit is 5-10% carbs by weight. There is variability but it is almost entirely a result of water content; apples are 85% water and around 15% carbs, similar figures for other mass produced fruit in the US, oranges manage 87/12 . Cauliflower comes in as 92% water and 5% carbs, Cabbage 92/6, Broccoli 90/6 (higher protein!)
Those figures all include dietary fibre. On my current diet a lot of that probably isn’t digested but on the keto diet I would expect all that can be digested to be digested.
So with a daily intake of 25g of carbs and those carbs just coming from veggies (not counting coffee) that’s 500g of vegetables, about 2 US cups (1 US pint). I can easily eat that amount of vegetables in one day.
The great thing about green, leafy vegetables and fruit is that water intake. There’s a fad diet thing about drinking a pint of water before eating; it does the same thing. If I eat a pint of vegetables or fruit I’ve consumed close to a pint of water. It simply fills the stomach.
The keto diet is certainly not balanced. Gluconeogenesis does not occur to that extent (the point where ketosis is obvious) in human beings on a balanced diet. It is most frequently observed in people who are starving; the gluconeogenesis generates glucose from the protein in their muscle cells, hence the characteristic wasting.
@jbowler Thanks for the refs. I looked at them and the first says it’s for doppio, ie two shots and two carbs (one each) per SBs nutrition info. BTW, I was referring to standard US coffee (weak by most EU countries I believe) which actually is <=1 carb per the USDA site. Also, I have no doubt some people are impacted by coffee, ala yourself and @Eric and several others, just not everyone or a lot of impact (though what constitutes “a lot” varies considerably) particularly with your diet as well!
I’d have a mixed reaction, I think, because of the starches, like jbowler mentioned.
Starches are high on the glycemic index, so they tend to send me high fast. The protein would help stabilize the BG after the fact (slowing down digestion a little bit), but for me I’d likely go high and stay high for a couple hours, unless I really perfected my pre-bolus and square wave bolus.
I try to focus on fiber, protein, and some fats together. Someone here on FUD recommend the Dave’s Killer Thin-Sliced Bread, and it’s been the best bread for my BG! Smaller portions for less overall carb impact, but still good amounts of protein and fiber from the whole grains. Good Seed Thin-Sliced — Dave's Killer Bread It makes for killer avocado toast, with some cherry tomatoes and everything bagel seasoning on top. 
I’m sure would be good with some hemp hearts for more protein!
Think Like a Pancreas has great info on glycemic index and other strategies to address post-meal spikes. I think mostly in the chapters “The Art and Science of Bolus Calculations” and “Taming the Highs and Lows.” If anyone has found an app that they really like for glycemic index (especially one where I can save my own list of common foods), I’d love to know it!
I’m vegetarian too, and cottage cheese is one of my fave protein sources! I’ve never shared with my cats, though they are always curious. 
I also love beans of all types (lentil tacos, chickpea salad sandwiches, curries, marinated bean salads, black bean quesadillas, all the options). I also make a lot of creamy pastas, but use the Darigold Fit high protein milk instead of cream, to add extra protein. I do eat some meat replacements depending on the recipe – primarily Quorn Grounds or Quorn Pieces, which even my omnivore husband enjoys. But yes, difficult to store some of those options in a mini fridge.
Back to GLP-1s, my T1D brother was recently prescribed one to address increasing insulin resistance. He’s loved it so far, and also says the food noise has reduced. I can’t remember whether his endo prescribed metformin before that. 
We have a lot of T2D family history in addition to us both being T1D, so I’m sure I’m going to run into insulin resistance as I age too.
Our bodies’ response to foods and beverages is as unique as we are.
As to why coffee doesn’t have much effect on my BG, maybe it’s because I have a high tolerance. I joke that I was weaned from mother’s milk to strong New Orleans coffee. Drinking coffee is one of my earliest memories.
Likewise my T2 brother-in-law was prescribed GLP-1s and feels they have helped him. There are countless people, T1, T2 and non-D, who say the same and they are right; there is simply no way to refute that much evidence. Explain it, dismiss it, belittle it, victim blame; all easy. A scientific refutation, not so.
To @mohe0001 YMMV, but there is something to be said for trying it, given what you do. Personal experience speaks much better than scientific proof and it certainly informs more. That’s what we do after all; we are all diabetics! Anyway, first person experiences count for a whole lot on FUD; they have made FUD and, indeed, TuD, what it is/was.
@allison. Here’s what I am ■■■■■ footing around - sex drive. They say that gets impacted in addition to ones desire to smoke and drink. You don’t have to comment, but there’s a lot of, sort of, abstract unknowns related to mood and animal brain and “drive” that just kinda creep me out. Will I just start laying around and watching TV all day? I don’t know.
I always thought coffee was good for BG because it speeds up your metabolism. I can’t say that I notice any impact from it, but I also drink a LOT of coffee. I drink it all day long. I drink it at 9:00 at night.
Some of this is probably kinda genetic and maybe related to the specific microbiome in your gut. When I worked at the Swedish museum, they told us that all their volunteers drink coffee like that - by the gallon. They always had coffee made for us, and sugary snacks. They said it was, “cultural,” but it might also be a little genetic.
Because I come from a cold part of the Midwest where people drink a lot of alcohol because there’s nothing else to do in the long winters, you can really see how people’s different countries of origin impact how they metabolize alcohol. For example, “gin blossums.” When I was a kid, I worked in a Chinese resturant and all those guys would break out in an allergic reaction when they drank. That happens to lots of guys of Asian descent. You could see when the cooks were all hanging out together the night before. But I have NEVER seen that happen to someone with a similar background to me. It didn’t happen to the wait staff. Some people metabolize alcohol really quickly, so they get really drunk, really fast. Then, it just works it’s way out of their system really quick and they are sober again in two hours.
I kinda imagine that coffee is the same way. If coffee is a large historical part of your ethnic history, you might respond to it a little differently than people for whom it’s not.
Milk is that way, too. There is a strong genetic or maybe microbiome component to an individuals ability to consume dairy.
Interesting. I’ve never heard of that before.
You can always try taking it and if you feel like it’s a problem, stop. I started taking glp-1s around the same time I started having sex (11 years ago), so no idea how it affects me because it’s all I’ve known.
