I just mean that it’s only a conceptual difference between basal and bolus insulin when delivered with a pump… it’s the same insulin and the amount floating around ones bloodstream at any given moment doesn’t really know if it was conceived as “basal” or “bolus” insulin…
But yes I hear you about women adjusting with mdi for their cycles… that’s a good case study too
I do see a very pronounced difference in total quantity of insulin used per day when using different amounts of basal insulin. Higher basal rates lead to much lower bolus needs…and it’s always made me wonder why an extra unit of basal over the course of a day can save me multiple 1.5 unit rage correction boluses which usually accomplish nothing or very little. Overdoing my basal by 5% too much last night dropped me 100 points in four hours. It makes me respect basal rates immensely and even though I feel I have a decently good handle on pulling the basal lever vs pulling the bolus lever, I still feel unclear on the extent of the Why. But 1 extra unit of Lantus did the same thing for me…I.e. Could save me 6-10 units of correction doses a day.
Just saw you had responded. It ended up going really well after that initial plummet. The first 2 hours though is when I’m trying to get kids off, and it can get ugly. The plummet didn’t surprise me. The rest of the morning and afternoon was what I was hoping for. As @Beacher said in another thread, I could’ve just gotten lucky and had a whole bunch of bad decisions turn out really well. He didn’t say that…he was talking about the frustration from having done everything right and have it turn out all wrong, but I can’t see why it can’t go the other way, too.
I ended up not needing to do these things, but I was also fully engaged in a steady flow of snacking. I had taken my mom to the hospital for a test and had too much time with too little to do to keep myself distracted. Steady snacking was the perfect remedy to an increased basal. For me. For that one day. It’s trying to repeat results that seem to be my real problem. 
Let’s look at the facts rather than at preconceived ideas, though. This experiment is a fact. If it can be duplicated by others, it shows that there is not a conceptual difference, but an actual one between basal and bolus insulin. It would mean that insulin delivered in small quantities with high frequency is much more effective per unit of insulin (for us, about 10x that day) than insulin delivered at rare, random intervals in large quantities.
I have had luck with that strategy, too. If I’m going to be physically active all day (like weed whacking all day long), I run a temp extra basal of 10% and just feed the dips with snacks periodically. That way I get to eat throughout the day without the big question mark of what my meal boluses are going to do in the face of all of that activity. It’s worked great in keeping those days safe and smooth.
Like I said I find it interesting and intriguing , I just find the logic hard to connect when it’s the exact same insulin being delivered and absorbed through the same hole in the skin… it just makes no logical sense to me. That’s not to say it’s not valid, I just can’t picture any way in which it mechanically makes sense…
You just said…
And just when I think I get something… you go and flip it. I don’t think I want to know why you run an increased temp basal for an all day activity. I mean, I get it, but it seems so counter-intuitive… Dang it, Allison. 
You and me both, brother. I even got snippy about my lack of understanding the Why with poor @Eric about it on another thread and @TiaG had to swoop in to be my Anger Translator. 
Sorry, @Eric. Thanks, @TiaG.
I originally thought it could not make sense. But, thanks to @Thomas a few month ago, I discovered that small, time-limited temp basals at night could be more effective than fairly large boluses. When you see it once, you are not sure, but when you see it pretty regularly you start being impressed.
Now I think that it may be a question of efficiency, frequency of delivery and quantity dumped in the bloodstream at once. I think it is likely to be real: too many people report such an effect, as @T1Allison does. But it would be really interesting to see others duplicate the experience and report what they find. Truth is in the data!
So, my body needs varying percentage changes of basal at least weekly, and sometimes more frequently than that due to hormone fluctuations. But given that I am female and I can only know when I’ve achieved perfection with a guessed basal change bc we women have no indicators on us telling us how insulin resistant we are for the day, do you find the merry go round of female basal rate experience helpful? I.E. In male test subjects, there may be more objectivity in testing different basal deficiencies vs amount of correction doses required due to their more stable insulin sensitivity.
Yes. I have been following these threads with fascination. At least some guys also have fluctuating basal: my son certainly does, varying from -20% to +5%, or more if it is post-sickness (of course levels change radically with sickness).
The data, though, needs to be quantitative for comparison. Our basal varies, but it often remains stable for days, sometimes a couple of weeks. So, for us, we had to do this experiment with the hope that we would remain stable across that time (which is why the need to revalidate the appropriateness of the basal after the experiment).
I understand, based on the great threads in the Women’s Health section (and dispersed posts in other forums), that, for many women, there are week- or 2-week-long periods that also see reasonable stability, much like my son. So the same kind of experiment should be doable for many women as well.
I have discussed with my endo clinic the data they see with the 670G patients. It is a pediatric clinic, so, obvisouly, they only see kids, up to early 20s. They tell me they see constant variations, to a much higher degree than they expected, both along a single night and along days and weeks. They have objective, numerical data, of course, so theirs is unquestionable. I was shocked by the instability they described. I am starting to wonder if diabetics with an ongoing stable basal over many weeks are not a minority…
Hat tip to you! I love your data driven approach to everything. It makes me feel good about confining my basal rate testing to Week 2 bc I know that is my best shot at utilizing a stable window of insulin sensitivity. Will continue to follow this thread with great interest. I love how much it has gotten people talking on the topic.
Oh there’s no doubt what you describe there makes perfect sense, I have no doubt that it may be a more effective regimen in order to trickle out the dose over a longer period, so the site can keep up with it in terms of absorption… I guess I’m just getting confused by the terminology at use…
This is all very interesting. I have never considered adjusting my basal ever since I started pumping 15 years ago.
That’s about my kind of timeline on basal rate changes…
It wasn’t intentional. It’s just the only thing I trust myself with when I’ve overshot my basal in the morning because, as much as I would enjoy a donut correction, the six donuts I would end up eating would not work out well.
Interesting… I do love bananas, but I’d also love a good alternative. I have no idea what effect grapefruit has on my blood sugar though; it’s been years since I’ve had one. Sounds like a good experiment. 
Nor had I but now have learned a lot about this strategy here! 
@Michel
You do (syringe/pen) as well as pump - correct?
So do you see a difference for a large injection (syringe/pen) bolus vs large pump bolus? As compared to the effectiveness of tiny trickles of insulin over longer periods (whether it be called temp basal or extended bolus or whatever)?
Just wondering if you have noticed if the large bolus not being as effective is limited to pump infusion or if the same applies to (syringe/pen). [Which is NOT to say it is NOT effective, but rather the relative impact of such.]
I think the calculation you’d need to do is to figure out what the likely concentration of insulin in the bloodstream is at any given time with basal vs. bolus injections. My guess is that what makes the difference is the fluctuating levels that you see with boluses. It’s like basal is pushing a rock up a hill slowly. Bolus is slamming the rock a few times and then it starts sliding back down before you slam it again. Or at least, that’s my best guess. Because @Sam is right that basal insulin delivered by a pump IS indistinguishable, chemically, from bolus insulin delivered by a pump. So the difference HAS to be down to the concentrations in the bloodstream minute-by-minute.
we see this too with pizza – and very clearly because of openAPS. We can “log phantom carbs” all night long to get openAPS to deliver microboluses – but it never works as well as simply running a 4-hour temp basal at an increased rate after the pizza.