FUDiabetes

Daisy Mae's swimming BG thread

You will need to experiment with a number that works. But probably a good idea to start with the full IC for the carbs and adjust after you see what happens.

And try taking at least (absolute minimum) 20 grams of sugar (meaning fast carbs, not slow carbs).

What you have been taking is 8 grams of sugar (see picture above).

this is exactly what happened with the chocolate milk. i think that it had 28 gms of sugars in it.
and the spike was immediate and crazy high.

I have at least 40 grams when I finish, sometimes much more. But I take a big dose to prevent a spike. More insulin than I need for the carbs.

But that bigger amount of insulin prevents a spike, because more insulin is available right at the point I am taking the carbs.

IOB? Sure, but that is no problem, because dinner follows soon after. So the IOB is part of the dinner dose.

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do you bother to pre-bolus for this? i wait half an hour after bolusing before i drink my shakes. i can spike pretty easily. just remember, you and i digest our food differently. YDMV. you usually take 100% up front for everything. i need to rely on my dual bolus feature to eat most of the stuff that you do. so all that sugar might be great for you, but it isnt necessarily good for me.

that doesnt mean that i am unwilling to try your way at least once; it just means we’re different.

and, as far as eating my yogurt after a workout is concerned, my yogurt is very soupy in texture . i can practically drink it, and it is a great source of both protein and carbs. why would you think that it is slow to digest?

PS: i would rather drink 3 of my Boost shakes than consume all of that sugar :blush:

40 gms of carbs, or 40 gms of sugar? or both?

remember when i told you how i ate 1 malt ball to bring my BG up, and you said it would take an entire bag full of malt balls to bring up your BG? i just respond differently to sugar than you do.

there simply must be a middle ground :sunny: and i am guessing that this will be another experiment for Daisy Mae and her Swimming Days.

(UGH!!! when does it end??? and btw, what are your BGs like before and after you drink all of this sugar and carbs?)

and remember, i am a tiny little thing. i am 50 pounds lighter than you are :wink:

If it has a high fat content, it would slow it down.

I make my Ovaltine and protein mix with 1% milk, just so the sugar is not slowed down!

Sure I understand we are not the same for insulin and all of that. I am not disconnecting for as long as you, which makes a difference too.

If you are worried about a spike, I would suggest an IM shot when you are done swimming, to speed it up. I really think that would help you reduce the spikes. And more carbs will help reduce the crazy drops.

I can run 15 miles and not drop after. Because I am sucking down a crazy amount of carbs.

Do you remember this Easter thread I posted, of the carb equivalents for 15 miles?
easter-candy-carb-equivalencies/

You have got to replace that fuel! Your body uses fat and glucose (in the form of muscle glycogen, blood sugar, and liver glycogen). The harder you are swimming, the higher the percentage your body is using the glucose forms for energy.

If you swim 2 hours, you need to replace it!

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do you take carbs during your run? or is everything taken after your run? or both?

Most of my carbs that happen right after running are simple sugar. dinner comes later and is more complex carbs, but most of the carbs I am taking right away are instant, from Ovaltine and tart cherry. Sometimes even a coke!

Right, which is why I told you 20 grams of sugar, not 40 grams like I am doing.
:wink:

Sometimes during. If I am practicing fueling, or if I need it. But I don’t count that as fueling for after. I don’t subtract it.

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DM, you have mastered the swimming BG, right? Incredible numbers you are putting up. Remember a year ago. And now look at what you are doing!

Are you done?

You are talking about problems spiking or dropping after swims. That is the next thing to attack.

So you have to start going after that.

Or you can just be content to stick with where you are.

I think standing still is boring.

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how many gms of sugar are in the Original Boost Shakes?

what a great quotation. you should post that on that site!!! :blush:

standing still is boring…thats why i swim :wink:

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how long does it generally take you to run 15 miles? AND, how do you negotiate your basal rate? do you do a 0% TB at all? or something more like an 80% TB during your entire run?

let me know your basic formula for an average run. you dont need to be exact; i am just very very curious. i would love to know how different we are and how our different bodies respond to insulin or lack of insulin or both.

please share :blush:

the chocolate milk i drank in Florida post swim had 28 gms of sugar in it and i only bolused for 1/2 that amount (14 gms) , b/c that has been my “secret formula” with how i bolus for my Boost Shakes (taking only 1/2 the amount of insulin than i would normally need to cover the carbs)

if i remember correctly, i went from something like a BG of 85 to 245 in less than 1/2 an hour. it was instant. if i were to drink 3 Boost Shakes instead of 2, that would amount to 48 gms of carbs and 12 gms of sugar. i would bolus for 24 gms for that. how does that sound to you? (currently, the 2 shakes amount to 32 gms of carbs and 32 gms of protein and 8 gms of sugar.

It is never the same way twice. It just depends on so many things. I can turn it off right before I start and take no carbs, or turn it off an hour before and pop carbs right before I start. I can take insulin while running, or take none. Or turn basal on in the middle of a run, or leave it off.

It is never the same, I just go with what feels right for that particular instance.

Last night ended up doing 8 miles. Started with basal off, turned it back on when I went up to 110. I took 0.10 units. Then I turned it back off when I went down to 80. Then took 23 grams for the last mile which was harder, so I wanted to fuel it with sugar. Ended the run at 127, which I think is high. But the last mile was faster so it probably spiked me a bit.

But none of that matters because next time the situation will be different. That’s why I don’t share a formula. Because I don’t have one! It’s always different.

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Lemme think about it a little before I answer.

You know the spikes you sometimes see way after? Like at night?

I think the faster carbs right away will help reduce those spikes too. If you have slow digestion, taking slow carbs is going to make you spike later. Fast carbs + slow digestion might work out for you better.

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here is where flexibility comes in to play. i have learned how to be flexable with my swim prep as well as how many carbs to take and when during my swims. i roll with the punches, so to speak. if i wake up on the high side, i pre-bolus more when i turn off my pump. if on the low side, less. and so on. same for how many carbs i need during my swim. and, as you said:its always different.

so, here is a new area for me to learn about. FUEL. i think i am up for the task :blush:

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HARDER AND FASTER EXPERIMENT # 3:

i know that i have been reporting the increasing speed of my swims lately, but it was a goal of mine that i set about 4 months ago. i am accomplishing it. each day i have been pushing myself to swim as hard as possible. even my “slow” warm-up swim is faster than it originally was. today was my fastest swim yet, and i can tell that i will ache severely as the evening progresses. my shoulders and my back and my arms are so exhausted than i feel like GUMBY, and my thighs and calves are burning. but it feels good.

also, a number of weeks ago, i had a goal that i wanted to learn the flip turn at the end of the lap lane; i taught myself how to do this by watching the other swimmers, and i have been becoming more and more proficient with it. today, in particular, i was doing it very well and consistently. but it did require focus and attention and precision. but, i was totally up to the task, so i was psyched about it.

also, i took yesterday off, and i really fueled up, so my body was rested today, and the fueling helped my swim a lot. currently, as i write this, i am refueling in hopes of not going low this evening. but i am also on a lowered basal rate; hopefully that will prevent the crash (which typically comes right after dinner).

i am considering changing my ICR for dinnertime on swimming days, since i consistently crash right after eating, about 1 hour after i bolus for my meal. i will have to consult eric for that one :wink:.

(although eric shared with me his ideas about how i can refuel more effectively after my swim to avoid the later evening crash, i am kind of nervous to start experimenting yet. i have my enormous bottle of apple juice available and ready. i did drink my 2 Boost Shakes, though, and i had a little plain yogurt—not the Greek yogurt, though, just the old fashioned kind. we’ll see what happens.)

will keep you posted.
signing off for today,
DM

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Hey DM,
You should post the numbers you showed me. They looked great today!

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HERE ARE TODAYS STATS:

1:30 BG 113 took 1/2 Gtab and jumped in
2pm BG 126
2:30 BG 118
3pm BG 101
3:30 BG 93

also, besides putting myself on the lowered basal pump profile, i turned my TB down to 90% for 4 hours. currently my BG is 73. i took 1/2 a Gtab and am getting ready to eat a nice, healthy dinner.

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A TOUGH SWIMMING LEARNING EXPERIEMNT # 1:

all seemed to be going well last night until 1 hour before i was planning on having dinner: i had plummeted to a BG of 46. i drank 1 glass of apple juice (28 gms sugar and carbs) and i waited for my sugars to come back up safely. it took 1 full hour to get them up to 54, so i had a little more juice and waited again. within 1/2 an hour, my Bg was 186. i bolused for dinner.within another hour, my BG had returned again to 45, and i had all this IOB from my dinner bolus. i quickly drank some more juice. this was at 8:30pm. at 9:30, i was still at 45, so i drank 1C 2% milk with 3 Tbs of Ovaltine; a total of 27 gms of carbs with moderate amount of sugars. i turned on an 80% TB and i waited. by 10:45 my BG was up to 89. phew, i felt like i was out of the woods. but, just an hour later, my BG was 180. man-o-man, was i exhausted. not just from my swim, but from all of these BG lows. ugh. anyway, i did a 1 unit correction and went to bed. and i turned off the TB.

i knew i would spike during the night. so, i went to bed with my reading glasses, a syringe and a vial of insulin on my bedside table. sure enough, at 3:30 in the morning, i woke up and tested, only to find that my BG was 348; i did a 5 unit IM correction and went back to sleep.

when i woke up this morning, my BG was 77. phew, back in range…at least i thought. i wasnt hungry, but i made myself a hearty bfast anyhow. i was shaking, sweating, aching…i felt like i had the flu. so i got back into bed and tried to sleep. all i did was roll around and curl up into a ball under my covers. i just couldnt get comfortable. i had the TV on and i kind of dozed in and out of sleep.

lunchtime came, and my BG was 98. i turned on my “Pattern A” basal rate (for non-swimming days) kind of wondering why my BG had risen from the 70s…but i bolused for lunch, 40 gms of carbs, waited 15 minutes, and ate. by 4:15 my BG had risen to 156 (WTF???) so i figured i would treat myself as if i did have the flu, and i raised a TB to 110%. i tested again in 1/2 hour, and my BG had risen even more to 185. OMG. i did a correction of 1 unit despite having .5 units OB and i tested again in 1/2 hour, and my BG was 206. at 7pm my BG had come down to 150, so i pre-bolused 25 minutes for dinner (i over-bolused by .5 units) and had just a small 1C bowl of cottage cheese and a decaf with cream. within an hour, my BG was crashing again at 78. i didnt bother correcting, b/c i thought i would let the food time to kick in. but, i did turn off the TB.

now all of this must sound terribly boring to you, but these are the events that have taken place (twice now) after a very hard, fast, strong 1.5 hour swim. clearly, something i am doing is NOT working. eric (of course, it would be eric :wink: ) has several ideas, all of which are about preventing the crash and thus preventing the over-night spike.

now, as you all must know by now, i am always hesitant to try new experiments, but in this instance, my trials have not been working at all, so i am truly up for anything. ANYTHING at ALL!

i wont be in the pool again until monday afternoon, after the weekend. so i have plenty of time to re-coop and refuel, and some time to consider a new post work-out formula. it may not work the first time round, but i will plan on doing some tweaking until i get it right…or at least close to that.

clearly, there are other D athletes out there who have found a solution to this problem. now, as is my nature, i will continue to persevere. i have gotten this far since last year; now there is a new challenge for me to overcome. i will find my way.

counting on and hoping for all of your prayers and open to all of your suggestions!!!
signing off, in all of my frustrations,
DM

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