Unsustainable insurance trajectory

Millions who buy health insurance brace for double-digit increases - CBS News


This is what happens when you try to favor one class of people over the other, Obama care was created with great intentions but as has been proven here you only end up hurting one group to help the other.

This government is very good at doling out money but at providing health care it sucks. If it wishes for us all to have affordable insurance it should provide each with the same benefit to be used for insurance and nothing else. The cost would be enormous but they are already.

Anyone that knows me knows that I am staunchly conservative but not on this issue on this issue I feel that everyone has the same right to healthcare.

It is time for healthcare reform that is fair to all, If that means national health care so be it. If it can be done another way it would be even better.

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The road to hell is paved with these


Here is the current (2013) breakdown of spending to facilitate your discussion:


“We’re caught in the middle-class loophole of no help,” said Thornton, a hairdresser from Newark, Delaware. She said she’s currently paying about $740 a month in premiums, and expects her monthly bill next year to be around $1,000, a 35 percent increase.

“It’s like buying two new iPads a month and throwing them in the trash,” said Thornton, whose policy carries a deductible of $6,000. “To me, $1,000 a month is my beach house that I wanted to have.”

Can you believe that people in the Netherlands complain about premiums of ~ €150 /month per adult and annual deductibles of €385 (also per adult)?


In my middle class loophole the outnof pocket would be a lot more than her costs for a family of 4… last I looked (and it’s too convoluted to do very often) I’d be paying about $2000/ mo out of pocket for a decent exchange plan… I suspect the figures she’s quoting are for a “bronze” plan

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Universal insurance should be the goal, I am currently paying for my healthcare through my employer where I pay a portion of the cost. My employer does not just up and pay for my insurance, I earned it, it is part of my compensation package. My employer does not interfere in my decisions, I earned my compensation, they do not control how I spend it. They encourage sound decisions but they do not force them

I would be willing to give that amount to the government if they will do the same and pay for a good insurance policy. I can only imagine the insurance industry where each and every person is empowered to choose the best policy for themselves. Imagine the competition that would be created, what cost saving could be realized if companies had to fight for the business of each individual.

Imagine if businesses were freed from the healthcare burden and the administrative cost, Imagine if my compensation were in real dollars, sure taxes for health care would take that away but it would be a shifting of cost not necessarily a net loss.

I could foresee that the real loser in this scenario would be the business man that is unwilling to pay a fair wage where an employee can afford his or her taxes and still earn a living wage. Small business owners now are between a rock and a hard place, They must now compete tooth and nail and so called benefits or rights are an easy target in the budget. If you force those cost on each business you will level the playing field for small business.

I envision this plan as a way to force the cost of healthcare onto our society, make the cost be included in to every transaction that takes place in our free market system.

I expect that what I write will be thoroughly dissected, they are just the musing of a dreamer, I will not be offended if issue is taken with what I have said. What I have written probably isn’t possible within our political system, But I can dream.

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I would instead say that universal access to healthcare should be the goal. IMO the fundamental problem is not that not some lack insurance, but that routine predictable care is so costly that almost nobody can afford it. In my belief it is the proper role of insurance to only exist for unforeseeable expenses. Currently what we have is an insurance system that drives up the cost of medical care and medical care costs that drive up the price of insurance-- idiotic on all counts. Until there is competition in healthcare pricing (a fundamental concept which insurance all but precludes) costs will continue their exponential growth… the tricky part is balancing that with the reality that people can’t be expected afford the unforeseen— which is why I’d suggest healthcare insurance should work just like every other type of insurance— insuring only against unforseeable expenses. Of course there needs to be basic safety nets to ensure nobody falls through the cracks too. I believe this would immediately bring the costs of healthcare down to reasonable levels across the board. But imo insurance over-involvement in the hc market is what’s made it the mess it currently is…


So when you look at health systems around the world there are three places where America is truly spending more than other countries, and I suspect all three would need to be reigned in to make insurance affordable for all.

Hospitals and hospital administration
Physician Salaries

These three combine for about 60% of the total healthcare spend.

Additionally, when you look around the world, there are some key differences in national healthcare systems that aren’t really palatable to the American public.

  1. End of life care. When you are passed an age (depends on country) and have multiple issues, they generally won’t treat them except with palliative care.

In the US, the average, regardless of how many issues you have had is that >80% of your healthcare dollars will be spent in the last 11 days you are alive. Clearly, someone needs to judge when you are near the end, and stop spending like they do in other countries.

  1. Lack of access to newer treatments. In France for instance, they held up allowing their citizens on public insurance to having access to implantable defibrillators for over 8 years when they were the standard of care in the rest of western Europe and the US. They did this because they didn’t want to spend the money to have these accessible to their citizens on public insurance despite overwhelming evidence that they work. There are myriad examples of this behavior in every public health system.

Both of these types of issues would need to be acceptable by the US in order for a national system to work. please note that there are many more issues, these are just examples.


I can’t agree with you here. I don’t think it is bad for wealthier people, or people with less risk, to end up subsidizing poor people to a degree. Besides, I think most of us have been very poor at one time or another (I have) and would take advantage of this at those times.

This is the principle of what progressive taxes is built on – and our country has accepted this principle for more than a century. In fact, Nixon, a Republican, tried hard to introduce the principle of negative taxes (instead of other help for the poor), which strikes me as a simpler and better way to do things as well.

FYI - I do not draw any personal advantage of either Obamacare or progressive taxes. I pay more than my proportional share in both systems, since I make a good living, but I still agree with the concept. It is only right, imho, to help others such as older people, people who are just getting started in life, down on their luck, with expensive diseases or …

Frankly, I have never cared about money. When I did not have any I did not really care, and when I started making some good money, it never made a difference to my happiness. It would always have been possible for me to live in a smaller house, eat cheaper food and take more camping vacations at any time in my life.

The ONLY time that money has made a difference has been since my son was diagnosed with diabetes. How could I live with myself if I wanted to take away this capability from others?

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I don’t believe that we disagree, Obamacare forced the cost onto the middle class, It is the American way to spread the cost of providing basic rights according to ones ability to pay, healthcare is a right. That is what my dream is about.

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Agree fully. I’ve always heard (and observed) that money only exacerbates, or heightens, the feelings, emotions and lifestyle you lead before having money. So, if for instance, you’re a miserable person and you win the lottery…you are going to be more miserable after the lottery win. If; however, you’re a happy person before winning the lottery, you will be more happy after winning it. Why? Because “money” isn’t generally a major concern to “happy” people.

I had a goal as a kid to make X dollars per year …and I never thought I’d attain that level of income. Once I passed that threshold, everything after that was just icing on the cake. Money helps us survive, but it has nothing to do with our happiness level.

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For me universal access to healthcare sounds like government provided healthcare, I wish for the government to stay as far away from my patient doctor relationship as possible, The government has never done anything well, think of the Veterans Administration healthcare system. I want government to do the only thing they do well, spend money.

I would rather trust my health to the greedy insurance companies than the inept government bureaucrats. At least the insurance companies would have to compete, that would mean providing a good product.

Oh I don’t want the government anywhere near healthcare either… I absolutely agree they’re terrible at everything. That’s not what I mean by universal access… what I mean is prices for routine health care need to be affordable, with some safety nets for people who can’t afford them-- and insurance only for catastrophic unpredictable expenses. Automobile insurance would cost a lot more if it covered tires, windshield wipers, and oil changes (and the costs of those things would skyrocket) instead of just accidents

Homeowners insurance would cost a lot more if yard maintenance, painters, and roofers would bill a lot more if they were billing your insurance

And I disagree that insurance has to compete with each other. Many states only have one single ACA provider now… and politics have forever prohibited insurers from competing across state lines (if that’s not corruption I don’t know what is… they had the chance to address that with the ACA but special interests prevented it)

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Like I have said I am a dreamer, in my dream those restriction do not exist,.