# Running with OmniLoop
**URL:** https://forum.fudiabetes.org/t/running-with-omniloop/7533
**Category:** Type 1 & LADA
**Tags:** dexcom, omnipod, closed-loop, loop
**Created:** [May 21, 2019, 9:45pm UTC](https://forum.fudiabetes.org/t/running-with-omniloop/7533 "2019-05-21T21:45:40Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 9
### Author:  [@daisymae](https://forum.fudiabetes.org/u/daisymae)
#### Post date: [August 9, 2019, 4:53pm UTC](https://forum.fudiabetes.org/t/running-with-omniloop/7533/161 "2019-08-09T16:53:18Z")
> [@TiaG](#):
>
> WE don’t really do much exercise that needs accounting for with our son, but from what I understand from @daisymae’s swimming thread, if you run progressively over the course of the week, you might become slowly more insulin sensitive and need less basal as your workouts progress through the week. So it’s possible you’ll need to program in overrides like “running after two days” or “running every day” etc. Depending on how many days a week you run, you might need different basals and sensitivities on different days.
thanks for noticing 😊 i would just like to chime in and repeat how consistantly this takes place. as per eric, i set 3 different profiles in my pump (i use Medtronic, not OPod), so i can switch settings w/out having to set daily TBs. as the week progresses, and if i have been swimming every day, i have a gradual ISF and less Basal. also, anything i consume right after my swim, i need less than 50% of units of insulin than at any other time of my day/night.
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### Author:  [@daisymae](https://forum.fudiabetes.org/u/daisymae)
#### Post date: [August 9, 2019, 4:54pm UTC](https://forum.fudiabetes.org/t/running-with-omniloop/7533/162 "2019-08-09T16:54:15Z")
> [@Trying](#):
>
> I saw them last night in NJ!
they’re still above ground?
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### Author:  [@Millz](https://forum.fudiabetes.org/u/Millz)
#### Post date: [August 26, 2019, 9:02pm UTC](https://forum.fudiabetes.org/t/running-with-omniloop/7533/163 "2019-08-26T21:02:00Z")
Ah, Eric… you are my musical “brother from another mother”!
A quick pop quiz for Eric’s students or anyone who wants to chime in: (no cheating by checking Google).
- What nickname did Barry White give himself?? 😏
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### Author:  [@Eric](https://forum.fudiabetes.org/u/Eric)
#### Post date: [August 26, 2019, 10:49pm UTC](https://forum.fudiabetes.org/t/running-with-omniloop/7533/164 "2019-08-26T22:49:30Z")
> [@Millz](#):
>
> What nickname did Barry White give himself?? 😏
I’ve heard this before!
But the answer should be sung…
> Eager and eager, yeah
> To feel your lips upon my face
> Please her and please her
> Any time or any place
>
> I’m the walrus, walrus, walrus, the walrus of love, baby
> I’m gonna need you, need you, need you every day
> I’m gonna want you, want you, want you in every way
>
> Yeah, give me something girl, for I’ll hold back knowin’
> This time it looks like love is here to stay
> As long as I shall live
> I’ll give you all I have and all I have to give
>
> 'Cause please her and please her
> Any time or any place
> Eager and eager
> To feel your sweet lips on my face
>
> Deeper and deeper
> In love with you I’m falling, yeah
> Sweeter and sweeter
> Your tender words of love keeps calling
>
> I’m the walrus, walrus, walrus, the walrus of love, baby
> I’m gonna need you, need you, need you every day
> I’m gonna want you, want you, want you in every way
[ ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=746uWZseUTk)
---
### Author:  [@Millz](https://forum.fudiabetes.org/u/Millz)
#### Post date: [August 27, 2019, 3:57am UTC](https://forum.fudiabetes.org/t/running-with-omniloop/7533/165 "2019-08-27T03:57:01Z")
And he wins!!!
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### Author:  [@flyerfansince79](https://forum.fudiabetes.org/u/flyerfansince79)
#### Post date: [December 10, 2019, 4:40am UTC](https://forum.fudiabetes.org/t/running-with-omniloop/7533/166 "2019-12-10T04:40:55Z")
I am a brand new poster here. I have begun training for a 10k in Feb. On Loop for about 2 months now. Still trying to figure some things out. I am finding that I have consistently been spiking after running. This did not happen when I regularly ran in previous years. Any thoughts???
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### Author:  [@Eric](https://forum.fudiabetes.org/u/Eric)
#### Post date: [December 10, 2019, 5:40am UTC](https://forum.fudiabetes.org/t/running-with-omniloop/7533/167 "2019-12-10T05:40:22Z")
> [@flyerfansince79](#):
>
> I am finding that I have consistently been spiking after running. This did not happen when I regularly ran in previous years. Any thoughts???
Hey Hey Flyers Fan!
Glad you found us here! Welcome to FUD!
Lots of things about running that could affect your BG. So many factors, and it takes a while to dig into it.
Sometimes the natural response to a hard run is the body releasing hormones to fuel the activity. The other factor is if you are on Loop and cutting basal for a long time, your BG might rise from the basal cuts. So there are a lot of things that could be affecting it.
Can we start with a little of your background? How long have you been running? How long have you been D? Typical carb intake on a normal day - like low, medium, or high carb.
Tell me about your runs. Do you do the same type of runs, or are they varied? What intensity do you usually run at?
Can you share some of the backstory - like your prep, how much you eat before, how close to the start you have eaten, starting BG, finishing BG, basal adjustment amounts, things like that?
Anyway, welcome to FUD!
++++++++++++
Unrelated, but my cousin teaches in Philadelphia. They had an anti-bullying campaign at their school.
Joe Watson, who was a little before your time (retired from the Flyers in '78), I think he is a chairman of the anti-bullying campaign or something. He knew somebody from my cousin’s school and arranged for Gritty to show up for their an anti-bullying assembly at the school.
So I thought it was just beautiful, Gritty and Joe Watson teaching kids about not bullying.
🤣
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### Author:  [@flyerfansince79](https://forum.fudiabetes.org/u/flyerfansince79)
#### Post date: [December 16, 2019, 4:34am UTC](https://forum.fudiabetes.org/t/running-with-omniloop/7533/168 "2019-12-16T04:34:35Z")
I had run previously from 2006-2010 and did manage to do 4 marathons and 3 halfs during that time. I had to stop due to plantarfaciaitis (sp.). I started running again in September of this year. I am totally enjoying it again. During my time when I was not running I was cycling very seriously. I still love getting on my bike when there is no snow. I have done many different long rides in my lifetime.
I have had Type 1 since the age of 15 and this year was Year 35 for me and diabetes. Yes I am 50. I am a medium carb dude.
I am currently training for a 10K in Edmonton, AB in February. I just finished week one of my training program. These runs are varied. Today was an easy day. Yesterday was my long day. I usually run at race pace except for the longer day and recovery day (Sat/Sun).
Prior to running I set my exercise icon on my Loop about 1 hour prior to running. Depending on my blood sugar is how many carbs I eat prior to. I like to eat 15 minutes before heading out. My starting B/S in an ideal world would be between 8 and 10 mmol/L (x18 for mg/dL). I like when I finish and I am around 7 mmol/L. I use the exercise app during and after and then keep a close eye on my sugar levels following my run. I usually then have a cup of chocolate milk and depending on where my sugars are maybe some other snack.
I hope this helps some. I understand that it is difficult to give some advice online. Are you a runner on Strava? Just curious.
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### Author:  [@Eric](https://forum.fudiabetes.org/u/Eric)
#### Post date: [December 16, 2019, 5:32am UTC](https://forum.fudiabetes.org/t/running-with-omniloop/7533/169 "2019-12-16T05:32:12Z")
> [@flyerfansince79](#):
>
> I had run previously from 2006-2010 and did manage to do 4 marathons and 3 halfs during that time.
Awesome! Glad to have you here! We have several runners here.
> [@flyerfansince79](#):
>
> Prior to running I set my exercise icon on my Loop about 1 hour prior to running.
Just curious, with your exercise override, your basal is basically just off, right?
I generally turn basal off for the entire run, so with Loop I was setting a crazy number to ensure it would be off. I ended up just going back to the normal PDM because it was easier for me. Plus bolusing was much easier from the PDM than it was from phone. Touchscreen is not easy when running.
Does your BG ever rise from adrenaline spikes?
> [@flyerfansince79](#):
>
> I usually then have a cup of chocolate milk and depending on where my sugars are maybe some other snack.
👍
I have suggested chocolate milk 10 or 1000 times here. 😀
> [@flyerfansince79](#):
>
> Depending on my blood sugar is how many carbs I eat prior to. I like to eat 15 minutes before heading out.
You mean a snack right? Not a meal?
What time of day do you usually run? I mean, is it like after a meal? Like after breakfast/lunch/dinner?
What do you use to fuel during runs?
> [@flyerfansince79](#):
>
> I had to stop due to plantarfaciaitis
Is that still a problem or concern? If it is, I have some suggestions that might help!
> [@flyerfansince79](#):
>
> I hope this helps some. I understand that it is difficult to give some advice online. Are you a runner on Strava? Just curious.
No, I am not on Strava. I just work with my coach through TrainingPeaks.
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### Author:  [@flyerfansince79](https://forum.fudiabetes.org/u/flyerfansince79)
#### Post date: [December 16, 2019, 1:17pm UTC](https://forum.fudiabetes.org/t/running-with-omniloop/7533/170 "2019-12-16T13:17:01Z")
Yes basically off.
I used to experience that big time on race day. Not so much training.
Yes usually a granola bar or sometimes a small orange or small banana.
Weekends I run in afternoon. During the week I run in the evening after supper.
No plantar f. Is no longer a problem. I just stopped orthotics after 7 years.
I fuel with Gatorade during runs.
Thank you
Brian Thiel
Go Riders Go!
Let’s Go Flyers!
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### Author:  [@Eric](https://forum.fudiabetes.org/u/Eric)
#### Post date: [December 16, 2019, 4:47pm UTC](https://forum.fudiabetes.org/t/running-with-omniloop/7533/171 "2019-12-16T16:47:46Z")
> [@flyerfansince79](#):
>
> Yes basically off.
So do you have a problem with BG drops during training runs?
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### Author:  [@flyerfansince79](https://forum.fudiabetes.org/u/flyerfansince79)
#### Post date: [December 16, 2019, 5:10pm UTC](https://forum.fudiabetes.org/t/running-with-omniloop/7533/172 "2019-12-16T17:10:56Z")
Not all the time but when I do it is usually the last third of the run
Brian Thiel
Go Riders Go!
Let’s Go Flyers!
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### Author:  [@Eric](https://forum.fudiabetes.org/u/Eric)
#### Post date: [December 16, 2019, 5:24pm UTC](https://forum.fudiabetes.org/t/running-with-omniloop/7533/173 "2019-12-16T17:24:49Z")
> [@flyerfansince79](#):
>
> Not all the time but when I do it is usually the last third of the run
If you are dropping later in the run, and you are doing a zero basal (ZB) during the run, the two options are 1) either extending the amount of time you are doing the ZB before the run, or 2) increasing your fueling during the run.
I think taking in more carbs in this scenario is the better option than increasing your ZB time, because taking in more carbs gives your body more fuel, which is exactly what you want.
I don’t know how long your runs are, but there is a general rule in running that for any run over 1 hour, you should take in 30-60 grams per hour. This is because the oxidation of exogenous carbohydrates during exercise is limited. But hitting that 30-60 grams is a really helpful thing from a performance perspective.
Are you going with CGM numbers,. doing BG testing, or just going by feel?
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### Author:  [@flyerfansince79](https://forum.fudiabetes.org/u/flyerfansince79)
#### Post date: [December 16, 2019, 7:01pm UTC](https://forum.fudiabetes.org/t/running-with-omniloop/7533/174 "2019-12-16T19:01:31Z")
CGM numbers
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### Author:  [@Eric](https://forum.fudiabetes.org/u/Eric)
#### Post date: [December 16, 2019, 7:27pm UTC](https://forum.fudiabetes.org/t/running-with-omniloop/7533/175 "2019-12-16T19:27:56Z")
> [@flyerfansince79](#):
>
> CGM
This may be of interest to you.
> [@Figure out your sweat loss for CGM](https://forum.fudiabetes.org/t/figure-out-your-sweat-loss-for-cgm/1345):
>
> I have noticed that Dexcom really bonks on me after about an 1 to 1 1/2 hours of running. This is because of the amount of sweat loss I have, which reduces the effectiveness of the interstitial fluid for measuring BG. I occasionally check my sweat rate to know how much I should be drinking to replace lost fluids. Here is how to do it: (this is a very close approximation, but for simplicity, it ignores the small difference between Avoirdupois weight in ounces and fluid ounces…): Do a bit of …
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* * *
And some references on the effects of dehydration and CGM accuracy. I don’t rely on CGM during exercise. I sometimes bring it along for general illustration purposes, but I go with BG tests for my actual numbers now.
> However, it might be that longer-duration exercise and the potential for dehydration could decrease the glucose supply within the interstitium, resulting in lower glucose levels compared to the capillary and venous systems. Furthermore, the lag time in interstitium could be influenced by the intensity of exercise and the amount of circulating insulin. Low insulin reductions combined with high exercise intensities could increase the lag time between the blood and the interstitium, resulting in severe impairments for continuous and flash glucose monitoring systems.
> **[Interstitial Glucose and Physical Exercise in Type 1 Diabetes: Integrative...](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5793321/)**
>
> Continuous and flash glucose monitoring systems measure interstitial fluid glucose concentrations within a body compartment that is dramatically altered by posture and is responsive to the physiological and metabolic changes that enable exercise...
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### Author:  [@flyerfansince79](https://forum.fudiabetes.org/u/flyerfansince79)
#### Post date: [December 17, 2019, 1:33am UTC](https://forum.fudiabetes.org/t/running-with-omniloop/7533/176 "2019-12-17T01:33:46Z")
I’ve read Michael Russell’s book
Getting Pumped! Very good but written before a lot was known on looping.
Brian Thiel
Go Riders Go!
Let’s Go Flyers!
---
### Author:  [@Eric](https://forum.fudiabetes.org/u/Eric)
#### Post date: [December 17, 2019, 4:59am UTC](https://forum.fudiabetes.org/t/running-with-omniloop/7533/177 "2019-12-17T04:59:43Z")
> [@flyerfansince79](#):
>
> Getting Pumped! Very good but written before a lot was known on looping.
I have not read that one.
But I have read all the stuff in the FUD sports section.
😀
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### Author:  [@LarissaW](https://forum.fudiabetes.org/u/LarissaW)
#### Post date: [December 26, 2019, 10:54pm UTC](https://forum.fudiabetes.org/t/running-with-omniloop/7533/178 "2019-12-26T22:54:16Z")
Hi @flyerfansince79 !! I am also a Flyers fan!
I love this picture I got of Gritty from Monday’s game 😂
I’m not sure if you watched it, but it was a great game to see live!
I just wanted to say hi! I’m also training right now. So cool that you’re getting back into running. I’ll sometimes get rises after runs as well. Like @Eric was saying there’s a bunch of factors that could be leading to that. Some of the things I think I’ve been able to distill it down to includes: adrenaline/stress, too little basal from running catching up with me _after_ I’m done with the run, if I’m running hard enough then whatever I’ve eaten isn’t really getting digested too much until after the run. Did I get that right @Eric ?
So depending on the run and where my BG is at, I’ll typically take some insulin right when I finish running. And if I start dropping then it’s a great chance for some grub 😃
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### Author:  [@flyerfansince79](https://forum.fudiabetes.org/u/flyerfansince79)
#### Post date: [December 27, 2019, 1:19am UTC](https://forum.fudiabetes.org/t/running-with-omniloop/7533/179 "2019-12-27T01:19:32Z")
Cool! I live in Oiler Country in Northern Alberta. Still figuring out what to do with running. It’s a process but I found I was in better control overall through Christmas.
Brian Thiel
Go Riders Go!
Let’s Go Flyers!
---
### Author:  [@Eric](https://forum.fudiabetes.org/u/Eric)
#### Post date: [December 27, 2019, 3:52am UTC](https://forum.fudiabetes.org/t/running-with-omniloop/7533/180 "2019-12-27T03:52:16Z")
> [@LarissaW](#):
>
> Some of the things I think I’ve been able to distill it down to includes: adrenaline/stress, too little basal from running catching up with me _after_ I’m done with the run, if I’m running hard enough then whatever I’ve eaten isn’t really getting digested too much until after the run. Did I get that right @Eric ?
Very good summary of factors!
Some ways of looking at it, depending on the type of run, distance, and intensity:
1. Your body can only oxidize a certain amount of carbs during exercise. The general rule-of-thumb is no more than 1 gram per minute (but actually you can increase this to 1.75 g/min using different substrates such as combining fructose and glucose. Topic for another day!). All the other carbs will hit later.
2. The max rate of oxidation can be reduced even more with higher intensity exercise. The harder your legs are working, the less your body will prioritize digestion.
3. Even if you are keeping the same pace, your body might need to work harder the longer you are running at that particular pace. (A good topic to discuss sometimes - Pace:HeartRate ratio!) So later in the run, there might be even a slower oxidation of carbs.
4. Just as described above, later in the run - even at the same pace - if you are getting more tired, you can be working harder. This can increase the effect of adrenaline, and that can cause your BG to spike up.
5. And of course, as you mentioned, no basal or less basal for a length of time and you might spike from that.
6. Alternatively, if you get tired and slow down later in the run and your intensity decreases, a lot of the carbs you had earlier will start to kick in!
The reason a formulaic approach does not work is that a run is rarely by formula. There are so many different factors to consider - intensity, Pace:HR, effort, distance, adrenaline, oxidation rate of carbs, etc…
@LarissaW, there is a book that would possibly be great for your summer reading. It would put you in a different orbit than any of your classmates, any other diabetic runner, most any runner. Different solar system actually. It is not an easy read, but with your background I am sure you could churn right through it. Something I can recommend if you want to learn some of these things during your school break time.
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