# Eli Lilly raises prices for Humalog **URL:** \ **Category:** D-News\ **Tags:** insulin\ **Created:** [May 11, 2017, 4:29am UTC](https://forum.fudiabetes.org/t/eli-lilly-raises-prices-for-humalog/880 "2017-05-11T04:29:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Eric](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/forum.fudiabetes.org/eric/32/9209_2.png) [@Eric](https://forum.fudiabetes.org/u/Eric)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2017, 11:10pm UTC](https://forum.fudiabetes.org/t/eli-lilly-raises-prices-for-humalog/880/61 "2017-05-11T23:10:14Z")
> [@TiaG](#): > > The big roadblock is the FDA, honestly. It’s those phase III trials that are killer. And the ways to slash those costs are more off-the-beaten-track (possibly illegal). 💯 > [@TiaG](#): > > there is plenty of research on faster excipients (the chemicals that speed insulin through tissue) I started looking at doing this on my own last year, but realized I was in way over my head. But I am considering picking it back up again. > **[Hyaluronidase injection Uses, Side Effects & Warnings](https://www.drugs.com/mtm/hyaluronidase-injection.html)** > > Physician reviewed hyaluronidase injection (injection) patient information - includes hyaluronidase injection description, dosage and directions. ---
**Author:** ![docslotnick](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/forum.fudiabetes.org/docslotnick/32/75_2.png) [@docslotnick](https://forum.fudiabetes.org/u/docslotnick)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2017, 11:28pm UTC](https://forum.fudiabetes.org/t/eli-lilly-raises-prices-for-humalog/880/62 "2017-05-11T23:28:03Z")
> [@TiaG](#): > > The big roadblock is the FDA I have yet to meet a government agency that actually makes our lives better and increases our freedom of choice. ---
**Author:** ![ClaudnDaye](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/forum.fudiabetes.org/claudndaye/32/5_2.png) [@ClaudnDaye](https://forum.fudiabetes.org/u/ClaudnDaye)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2017, 11:51pm UTC](https://forum.fudiabetes.org/t/eli-lilly-raises-prices-for-humalog/880/63 "2017-05-11T23:51:47Z")
2 regulations being done away with for every new one created, so that’s sure to fix everything. :: smirks sarcastically :: ---
**Author:** ![drbbennett](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/forum.fudiabetes.org/drbbennett/32/604_2.png) [@drbbennett](https://forum.fudiabetes.org/u/drbbennett)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 2:04pm UTC](https://forum.fudiabetes.org/t/eli-lilly-raises-prices-for-humalog/880/64 "2017-05-12T14:04:50Z")
Well, in the FDA’s defense, we tend to take for granted that all on their own manufacturers of everything from insulin to dietary supplements would just naturally be honest about what’s in their products–or even bother to tell us at all. Easy to forget a century ago when tapeworm larvae were sold to women for weight loss and claims like “Contains genuine radium!” were exciting marketing come-ons. Like the EPA and others, these agencies didn’t come into existence because private industry was doing such a bang-up job preventing the Ohio River from bursting into flames that meddlesome gubmint bureaucrats wanted to horn in on all that great PR action and grab the credit. > Much credit is given to the deaths of many people in the 1930s, including Eben Byers in 1932 from the ingestion of radithor and many women, some known as The Radium Girls, to making the FDA into the much more powerful organization we know today. > [History of the Food and Drug Administration - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Food_and_Drug_Administration) ---
**Author:** ![Chris](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/forum.fudiabetes.org/chris/32/382_2.png) [@Chris](https://forum.fudiabetes.org/u/Chris)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 2:11pm UTC](https://forum.fudiabetes.org/t/eli-lilly-raises-prices-for-humalog/880/65 "2017-05-12T14:11:55Z")
Yes some regulation is needed, but our system of proving safety (like the rest of the world) AND effectiveness is SUPER expensive. If they did the job I would like them to, which is ensure safety, then the approvals would be orders of magnitude less expensive to gain approval and we would be just as safe. Instead we have companies having to spend huge sums to prove effectiveness, which the market can do as well for much less money. Because of the huge costs and risks the companies in turn have less competition, and therefore can charge outrageous sums, like the last crop of Hep C drugs. While having no agency would be bad, if no one can afford to compete with each other, we are in just as bad a place. ---
**Author:** ![docslotnick](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/forum.fudiabetes.org/docslotnick/32/75_2.png) [@docslotnick](https://forum.fudiabetes.org/u/docslotnick)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 3:02pm UTC](https://forum.fudiabetes.org/t/eli-lilly-raises-prices-for-humalog/880/66 "2017-05-12T15:02:05Z")
@drbbennett. I fully understand the necessity for the birth of government agencies. When Nixon formed the EPA, people were in serious danger because of air and water pollution. The problem is that government ends up bastardizing the original purpose and intent of agencies they create. Now, the EPA is a far greater danger to people and freedom than the condition of the air and water. It is an endemic problem with government, and I certainly don’t think it will ever be solved. ---
**Author:** ![TiaG](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/forum.fudiabetes.org/tiag/32/594_2.png) [@TiaG](https://forum.fudiabetes.org/u/TiaG)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 3:04pm UTC](https://forum.fudiabetes.org/t/eli-lilly-raises-prices-for-humalog/880/67 "2017-05-12T15:04:43Z")
I want them to test efficacy too eventually, but I don’t think that needs to be done before approval. I think they can give some provisional approval to sell the product for 5 years based on safety data and if it hasn’t been tested as effective in a trial (which I think could conceivably be performed using the data from patients already using the drug though that might be tricky to set up and potentially subject to a lot of manipulation by the companies), the approval would be revoked. ---
**Author:** ![TiaG](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/forum.fudiabetes.org/tiag/32/594_2.png) [@TiaG](https://forum.fudiabetes.org/u/TiaG)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 3:12pm UTC](https://forum.fudiabetes.org/t/eli-lilly-raises-prices-for-humalog/880/68 "2017-05-12T15:12:19Z")
@docslotnick, my dad was a petroleum engineer who worked for companies like British Petroleum and Standard Oil. After that, he also worked for 20 years with the EPA’s superfund cleanup division. While he constantly complained about the bureaucracy and the lawyers, and in his mind is more of an “oilman,” there is no doubt that he actually made many dangerously hazardous sites less so and feels proud of that. He was the type of person who always asked if a hazard was actually endangering human health and often found much cheaper ways to remediate based on his knowledge of hydrology and geology. And this typically did not cost taxpayers much money because those doing the polluting were ultimately responsible for cleaning up the site. Was the bureaucracy stifling and sometimes ridiculous? Yes, for sure. But he still felt strongly the EPA was doing more harm than good in those situations. By the way, he’s not an environmentalist at all. I’m sure that the EPA can throw up roadblocks when there’s no need and can cost industry a lot of money to do business, but I think it’s hyperbolic to say they present a _danger_ to people. They may be curtailing freedom, sometimes unecessarily, but oftentimes one entity’s freedom leads to another person’s poisoned water. Personally, I am fine with the idea that development is more expensive if it i means kids with asthma don’t have to breathe air like that in India. ---
**Author:** ![drbbennett](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/forum.fudiabetes.org/drbbennett/32/604_2.png) [@drbbennett](https://forum.fudiabetes.org/u/drbbennett)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 3:24pm UTC](https://forum.fudiabetes.org/t/eli-lilly-raises-prices-for-humalog/880/69 "2017-05-12T15:24:32Z")
> [@docslotnick](#): > > It is an endemic problem with government, and I certainly don’t think it will ever be solved. I agree that bureaucratic overreach is an endemic problem but I strongly disagree with the hard-Libertarian view that everything would be just fine if we dumped these agencies and let the Invisible Hand do its magic. The reason they exist is precisely because left to its own impulses The Market may solve certain kinds of problems but it also creates others that it can’t solve. ---
**Author:** ![drbbennett](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/forum.fudiabetes.org/drbbennett/32/604_2.png) [@drbbennett](https://forum.fudiabetes.org/u/drbbennett)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 3:31pm UTC](https://forum.fudiabetes.org/t/eli-lilly-raises-prices-for-humalog/880/70 "2017-05-12T15:31:57Z")
> [@Chris](#): > > Yes some regulation is needed, but our system of proving safety (like the rest of the world) AND effectiveness is SUPER expensive. If they did the job I would like them to, which is ensure safety, then the approvals would be orders of magnitude less expensive to gain approval and we would be just as safe. That strikes me as a useful distinction. To pick a concrete test case: The Cinnamon Cure for diabetes–caveat emptor? Or should someone step in and say “Prove it.” [http://www.diabetesforecast.org/2013/nov/fda-cracks-down-on-diabetes.html](http://www.diabetesforecast.org/2013/nov/fda-cracks-down-on-diabetes.html) ---
**Author:** ![drbbennett](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/forum.fudiabetes.org/drbbennett/32/604_2.png) [@drbbennett](https://forum.fudiabetes.org/u/drbbennett)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 3:48pm UTC](https://forum.fudiabetes.org/t/eli-lilly-raises-prices-for-humalog/880/71 "2017-05-12T15:48:36Z")
> [@TiaG](#): > > And this typically did not cost taxpayers much money because those doing the polluting were ultimately responsible for cleaning up the site. Because the air and water they were polluting were public goods that they were exploiting for private benefit–as they were right to do by their own terms, because those things were free and their only obligation is to their shareholders. In market terms, it’s illogical and unfair to expect firms to take account of those things if they are there for the taking, free of charge, because minimizing overhead and maximizing profit is in their DNA. It’s only by imposing a cost that you create an incentive for firms to take account of those things. If you can set it up so as to do that without dictating the solution, market forces can generate better solutions from the bottom up than bureaucracies can from the top down, which is a failing of the older models of regulation. But someone has to stand outside the system and establish that this is the playing field for all firms, otherwise the bad actors will prevail. ---
**Author:** ![TiaG](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/forum.fudiabetes.org/tiag/32/594_2.png) [@TiaG](https://forum.fudiabetes.org/u/TiaG)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 3:50pm UTC](https://forum.fudiabetes.org/t/eli-lilly-raises-prices-for-humalog/880/72 "2017-05-12T15:50:00Z")
I think it’s a tough one with a case like cinnamon – which is somewhat likely to be benign even if totally useless. On one hand, if someone wants to take cinnamon in addition to their actually useful diabetes medication, fine with me. On the other hand, if fewer people know that it is total bunk, some will probably NOT take the effective medication that’s out there, which can cause a lot of pointless harm. Still, I think people should be free to take dumb, pointless medicines as long as we have an effective way of getting across that they’re dumb and pointless. Drugs that can do harm and have no established benefits shouldn’t be available. ---
**Author:** ![Chris](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/forum.fudiabetes.org/chris/32/382_2.png) [@Chris](https://forum.fudiabetes.org/u/Chris)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 5:46pm UTC](https://forum.fudiabetes.org/t/eli-lilly-raises-prices-for-humalog/880/73 "2017-05-12T17:46:08Z")
> [@drbbennett](#): > > That strikes me as a useful distinction. To pick a concrete test case: The Cinnamon Cure for diabetes–caveat emptor? Or should someone step in and say “Prove it.” There are two issues at play, one is approval and the other is marketing. The FDA regulates both, and they don’t have to be connected. They could approve the drug “cinnamon” since it is safe for consumption, without allowing a company to make a claim that it works. Personally, I believe diabetics should be able to eat all the cinnamon they want. ---
**Author:** ![Michel](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/forum.fudiabetes.org/michel/32/387_2.png) [@Michel](https://forum.fudiabetes.org/u/Michel)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 6:01pm UTC](https://forum.fudiabetes.org/t/eli-lilly-raises-prices-for-humalog/880/74 "2017-05-12T18:01:35Z")
> [@Chris](#): > > They could approve the drug “cinnamon” since it is safe for consumption, without allowing a company to make a claim that it works. Personally, I believe diabetics should be able to eat all the cinnamon they want. This is such a difficult topic though. I think I agree with what you are saying – but I wonder if there are some important limit cases where I would be totally wrong. Possibly the company should then required to post a claim stating that no scientific research shows it working? ---
**Author:** ![TiaG](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/forum.fudiabetes.org/tiag/32/594_2.png) [@TiaG](https://forum.fudiabetes.org/u/TiaG)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 6:04pm UTC](https://forum.fudiabetes.org/t/eli-lilly-raises-prices-for-humalog/880/75 "2017-05-12T18:04:05Z")
I think this is actually an interesting one for newer drugs being developed by pharma. Imagine a drug that is approved for safety but that a company cannot say _does_ anything…It’s hard to imagine doctors prescribing it, unless there is at least a little bit of phase II efficacy data to go on. ---
**Author:** ![drbbennett](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/forum.fudiabetes.org/drbbennett/32/604_2.png) [@drbbennett](https://forum.fudiabetes.org/u/drbbennett)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 7:06pm UTC](https://forum.fudiabetes.org/t/eli-lilly-raises-prices-for-humalog/880/76 "2017-05-12T19:06:17Z")
> [@TiaG](#): > > Imagine a drug that is approved for safety but that a company cannot say does anything…It’s hard to imagine doctors prescribing it, unless there is at least a little bit of phase II efficacy data to go on. Actually I don’t think we have to imagine–happens all the time. Whether doctors recommend 'em is another question. I was just talking with a friend who’s a top research director at Pfizer (currently–these guys bounce around like pinballs) and he was commenting about how marginal the “benefit” qualifications can be, and diabetes treatments, which are proliferating like fleas on a long haired dog, are prime evidence. I mentioned how ridiculously saturated the cable channels are with these things, and he said “If they’re advertising on TV, they’re failing,” which I understood to mean the ones that are working don’t have to go there. ---
**Author:** ![Chris](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/forum.fudiabetes.org/chris/32/382_2.png) [@Chris](https://forum.fudiabetes.org/u/Chris)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 7:08pm UTC](https://forum.fudiabetes.org/t/eli-lilly-raises-prices-for-humalog/880/77 "2017-05-12T19:08:48Z")
There is usually some data and some claim(s) that can be made based on the existing data without doing a full blown efficacy study. Europe is slowly moving toward requiring efficacy data ☹ , but is still much easier to get a drug approved that the US. There aren’t large groups of people dying in the EU because their safety agency doesn’t require as much data as the FDA. We need to find a happy middle ground, rather than make it so only the big boys can play. ---
**Author:** ![Bradford](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/forum.fudiabetes.org/bradford/32/30_2.png) [@Bradford](https://forum.fudiabetes.org/u/Bradford)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 7:22pm UTC](https://forum.fudiabetes.org/t/eli-lilly-raises-prices-for-humalog/880/78 "2017-05-12T19:22:52Z")
I have access to a high-end Mass Spectrometer. Maybe we just need to develop our own insulin. > **[Open Insulin](https://experiment.com/projects/open-insulin)** > > A team of biohackers is developing the first open source protocol to produce insulin simply and economically. Our work may serve as a basis for generic production of this life-saving drug and provide a firmer foundation for continued research into... ---
**Author:** ![Michel](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/forum.fudiabetes.org/michel/32/387_2.png) [@Michel](https://forum.fudiabetes.org/u/Michel)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 7:52pm UTC](https://forum.fudiabetes.org/t/eli-lilly-raises-prices-for-humalog/880/79 "2017-05-12T19:52:13Z")
> [@Bradford](#): > > I have access to a high-end Mass Spectrometer. Maybe we just need to develop our own insulin. I really believe that this has become feasible. I would be ready to participate in such an initiative. My older son, who is a student at Stanford, and is very close to his T1D brother, is looking into possibly launching an opensource project aimed at allowing crowdsourcing for medical research. ---
**Author:** ![TiaG](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/forum.fudiabetes.org/tiag/32/594_2.png) [@TiaG](https://forum.fudiabetes.org/u/TiaG)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 8:10pm UTC](https://forum.fudiabetes.org/t/eli-lilly-raises-prices-for-humalog/880/80 "2017-05-12T20:10:20Z")
Those drugs are usually FDA approved, so not-so-savvy viewers still have a reason to assume they are somewhat effective. If they are not approved for efficacy, hopefully people will know the difference. I aslo would support a marketing ban – i.e you can’t say they’re effective for anything – until you’ve proven they’re so. [Previous page](https://forum.fudiabetes.org/t/eli-lilly-raises-prices-for-humalog/880.md?page=3) [Next page](https://forum.fudiabetes.org/t/eli-lilly-raises-prices-for-humalog/880.md?page=5)