# DN’s Running and Other Mishaps Thread
**URL:** https://forum.fudiabetes.org/t/dn-s-running-and-other-mishaps-thread/4398
**Category:** Sports & Exercise
**Created:** [July 5, 2018, 11:53pm UTC](https://forum.fudiabetes.org/t/dn-s-running-and-other-mishaps-thread/4398 "2018-07-05T23:53:41Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 5
### Author:  [@Eric](https://forum.fudiabetes.org/u/Eric)
#### Post date: [July 13, 2018, 4:33am UTC](https://forum.fudiabetes.org/t/dn-s-running-and-other-mishaps-thread/4398/84 "2018-07-13T04:33:23Z")
> [@Nickyghaleb](#):
>
> I finished the first one in 12:44.
> …
> and then ran the second 1.5 miles. This one was work from about 1/2 mile in, but I finished in 12:32.
Those are perfect! Exactly the right pace. Well done!
> [@Nickyghaleb](#):
>
> I wouldn’t say it felt easy… not at all, but there wasn’t a moment today where I felt like I _couldn’t_ . And I liked that.
Tough but doable. Exactly what we want.
What was your RPE?
> [@Nickyghaleb](#):
>
> AND the rebound 281 at the start of the run. So I was high going in and came out of it at a 223.
That high BG makes it a bit tougher. Your body is not able to produce pyruvate, which is used for energy.
(_Glycolysis is the process where one molecule of glucose breaks down into two molecules of pyruvate, which are then used to provide energy in one of two ways._)
So with normal BG numbers, this should feel much better.
But all-in-all, good work and a good baseline for what we want to do.
Give me your RPE.
---
### Author:  [@Nickyghaleb](https://forum.fudiabetes.org/u/Nickyghaleb)
#### Post date: [July 13, 2018, 4:48am UTC](https://forum.fudiabetes.org/t/dn-s-running-and-other-mishaps-thread/4398/85 "2018-07-13T04:48:04Z")
Say about a 5-6 for the first mile and then 6-7 after that? I was definitely working, but it wasn’t a bad working. I did a mile cool down… I wouldn’t have done that if I hadn’t been feeling good… since it wasn’t mentioned.
And thanks, by the way. 🙂️
And do you sleep??
---
### Author:  [@Eric](https://forum.fudiabetes.org/u/Eric)
#### Post date: [July 13, 2018, 4:58am UTC](https://forum.fudiabetes.org/t/dn-s-running-and-other-mishaps-thread/4398/86 "2018-07-13T04:58:27Z")
RPE sounds good!
I’m putting together week 2 for you.
> [@Nickyghaleb](#):
>
> And do you sleep??
I should do that now. But I’m too amped from adrenaline. Maybe you will feel that tonight too. 😀
---
### Author:  [@Nickyghaleb](https://forum.fudiabetes.org/u/Nickyghaleb)
#### Post date: [July 13, 2018, 5:11am UTC](https://forum.fudiabetes.org/t/dn-s-running-and-other-mishaps-thread/4398/87 "2018-07-13T05:11:04Z")
Every night. 😁 but I’ll try to force it now…
Looking forward to week 2… kind of. 😉 good night.
---
### Author:  [@Eric](https://forum.fudiabetes.org/u/Eric)
#### Post date: [July 13, 2018, 12:04pm UTC](https://forum.fudiabetes.org/t/dn-s-running-and-other-mishaps-thread/4398/88 "2018-07-13T12:04:29Z")
> [@Nickyghaleb](#):
>
> Looking forward to week 2… kind of
I have week 2 ready for you, but I want to see about your weekend LSD first, how it feels for you and if it is manageable.
---
### Author:  [@Nickyghaleb](https://forum.fudiabetes.org/u/Nickyghaleb)
#### Post date: [July 13, 2018, 3:25pm UTC](https://forum.fudiabetes.org/t/dn-s-running-and-other-mishaps-thread/4398/89 "2018-07-13T15:25:00Z")
> [@Eric](#):
>
> I want to see about your weekend LSD first, how it feels for you and if it is manageable.
I’m surprised at this suggestion, Eric… and, frankly, I think I’m too old. 😃
Seriously… is that what normal people call it or is that just your twisted sense of humor?
So today was fantastic. Went great. Felt great. I’m sorry it’s over. I got up and decided I was going to head out early and just chance it with my blood sugar/coffee combo since the last time I attempted it, it went awry. The stars aligned this morning though, and I bolused one unit for two cups of coffee about an hour before leaving, set my 60 min ZB, and headed out at a 157. I ran 4.5 miles in 40 minutes and walked a mile and half back home. RPE… or PRE… ERP? Whatever it’s called was about a 5ish. Higher on the hills, which were everywhere, but I just slowed down a little and kept it casual. Returned at a 109.
I’m off to have my nerves blocked, and I’m in such a good mood, I’m even looking forward to that. 😃
---
### Author:  [@Eric](https://forum.fudiabetes.org/u/Eric)
#### Post date: [July 13, 2018, 4:10pm UTC](https://forum.fudiabetes.org/t/dn-s-running-and-other-mishaps-thread/4398/90 "2018-07-13T16:10:55Z")
Your run sounds great!
Sounds like everything is getting dialed in for the correct paces and distances.
The goal tomorrow is just time spent running. Don’t worry too much about pace, just try to get a good amount of time running. Nice and relaxed.
> [@Nickyghaleb](#):
>
> Seriously… is that what normal people call it or is that just your twisted sense of humor?
That is a very common term among runners. But I don’t know if you would call us normal.
[running-terms](https://forum.fudiabetes.org/t/running-terms-lsd-and-speed/434)
---
### Author:  [@TiaG](https://forum.fudiabetes.org/u/TiaG)
#### Post date: [July 13, 2018, 4:19pm UTC](https://forum.fudiabetes.org/t/dn-s-running-and-other-mishaps-thread/4398/91 "2018-07-13T16:19:40Z")
wow @Nickyghaleb, it seems like you’ve made a lot of progress just in a few weeks. So inspiring to read about!
---
### Author:  [@Nickyghaleb](https://forum.fudiabetes.org/u/Nickyghaleb)
#### Post date: [July 13, 2018, 5:49pm UTC](https://forum.fudiabetes.org/t/dn-s-running-and-other-mishaps-thread/4398/92 "2018-07-13T17:49:10Z")
I don’t know if it’s true progress if it turned out I could’ve been doing a lot more for a long time?? 🤔 Actually, I know it is. It’s progress of a different kind.
Thank you, @TiaG. 🙂 It feels great… except for the parts that felt like death. 😃
---
### Author:  [@Nickyghaleb](https://forum.fudiabetes.org/u/Nickyghaleb)
#### Post date: [July 15, 2018, 5:01am UTC](https://forum.fudiabetes.org/t/dn-s-running-and-other-mishaps-thread/4398/93 "2018-07-15T05:01:38Z")
This is not pressing information for 1:00 am, but i got my treadmill… and it was broken, so it’s gone back. And I never made it to my nerve block… for whatever reason, traffic wasn’t allowing it. So 0 for 2. But I may have solved my “bloated” mystery… by vigorous testing of the effect of late night chip-eating and am considering salt as the not-surprising culprit, AND i’ll be getting up earlyish and heading out for my LSD. 😃 It’s been a big weekend.
---
### Author:  [@Nickyghaleb](https://forum.fudiabetes.org/u/Nickyghaleb)
#### Post date: [July 15, 2018, 8:27pm UTC](https://forum.fudiabetes.org/t/dn-s-running-and-other-mishaps-thread/4398/94 "2018-07-15T20:27:42Z")
@Eric… from today…
5.2 miles in 47 minutes. Felt fantastic. I left the house at a BG of 180 and 1.4 units on board. I had a nasty-high blood sugar all night and had to do a correction earlier in the morning. I also had to have my 2 coffees… so I bolused a unit for that. I DID do 60 minutes ZB though, and that all seemed to be fine. Returned at a 79. Everything felt pretty good once I got into it. I think maybe the day off left me stiff this morning as I started off with stiff hips and some left shin pain. That makes me a little nervous because shin splints have been my thing since I was a kid. Whatever it was though, it was gone within about 10 minutes. And my RPE (?) was about a 5-6.
You got week 2 ready? 😃
---
### Author:  [@Eric](https://forum.fudiabetes.org/u/Eric)
#### Post date: [July 15, 2018, 9:41pm UTC](https://forum.fudiabetes.org/t/dn-s-running-and-other-mishaps-thread/4398/95 "2018-07-15T21:41:41Z")
Great work today! Well done on your LSD!
Make getting your new running shoes a priority this week.
> [@Nickyghaleb](#):
>
> You got week 2 ready?
Yep.
Here it is:
Week 2:
++++++++++++++++++++++++
Monday, July 16, 30 to 35 minute Easy Run
8:57-9:55 pace
* * *
Tuesday, July 17, Speed Ladder
1 mile warmup at easy pace
200m @ 7:30 - 7:41 pace
200m recovery jog
400m @ 7:41 - 8:00 pace
400m recovery jog
600m @ 8:00 - 8:20 pace
600m recovery jog
800m @ 8:20 - 8:34 pace
800m recovery jog
600m @ 8:00 - 8:20 pace
600m recovery jog
400m @ 7:41 - 8:00 pace
400m recovery jog
200m @ 7:30 - 7:41 pace
200m recovery jog
1 mile cooldown at easy pace
(On the speed ladder, make note of which reps are the easiest and which are the hardest. We will use that to find your inner “beast”.)
* * *
Wednesday, July 18, Off day
* * *
Thursday, July 19, Tempo run
1/2 mile warmup at easy pace
2.5 miles at 8:34 - 8:40 pace
1 mile cool-down at easy pace
* * *
Friday, July 20, 30 to 40 minute Easy Run
8:57-9:55 pace
* * *
Weekend, July 21 or 22, Long Run
60 minutes at 8:59-10:16 pace
---
### Author:  [@NickM](https://forum.fudiabetes.org/u/NickM)
#### Post date: [July 16, 2018, 11:05am UTC](https://forum.fudiabetes.org/t/dn-s-running-and-other-mishaps-thread/4398/96 "2018-07-16T11:05:21Z")
> [@Nickyghaleb](#):
>
> Have been an athlete all of my life, and a pretty good one I might add, but my ability to just head out the door and perform whatever activity I’d like has been dwindling. Some might call that “aging”
The easy way to tell if performances are declining in line with advancing age is to calculate age-grades. If you do Parkrun they will calculate the percentages for you. It is a great measure for retirees like me because you can run an age-grade PB at any age, even though your time in minutes and seconds is getting longer and longer.
---
### Author:  [@Nickyghaleb](https://forum.fudiabetes.org/u/Nickyghaleb)
#### Post date: [July 16, 2018, 4:16pm UTC](https://forum.fudiabetes.org/t/dn-s-running-and-other-mishaps-thread/4398/97 "2018-07-16T16:16:44Z")
Never heard of it but sounds interesting. Is the information beneficial in any way?
---
### Author:  [@Nickyghaleb](https://forum.fudiabetes.org/u/Nickyghaleb)
#### Post date: [July 16, 2018, 5:16pm UTC](https://forum.fudiabetes.org/t/dn-s-running-and-other-mishaps-thread/4398/98 "2018-07-16T17:16:42Z")
> [@Eric](#):
>
> 200m @ 7:30 - 7:41 pace
> 200m recovery jog
>
> 400m @ 7:41 - 8:00 pace
> 400m recovery jog
>
> 600m @ 8:00 - 8:20 pace
> 600m recovery jog
>
> 800m @ 8:20 - 8:34 pace
> 800m recovery jog
>
> 600m @ 8:00 - 8:20 pace
> 600m recovery jog
>
> 400m @ 7:41 - 8:00 pace
> 400m recovery jog
>
> 200m @ 7:30 - 7:41 pace
> 200m recovery jog
Thought that was some kind of cluster of typos… but then i realized they had different numbers… and that that was the workout. I would’ve been scared of that anyway, following last Tuesday’s stuff, but I’m particularly afraid after today’s…
This is the second Monday “easy” run that has felt hard. I went out at 9:30, which turned out to be way too late because it was already miserably hot and even more miserably humid. Almost unbearable. I hung on the shaded side of the street, which is not the side of the road I usually run on, and it turned out the hill on that side has an even nastier incline… so shaded but really nasty. I was very sad. My legs were like rocks, and my shoulders! I’ve been meaning to ask you about my shoulders… I must carry a lot of tension in them because they hurt every run, and it’s a viscous cycle: the worse I feel, the more they hurt, the more they hurt, the worse I feel… My dad, who used to run with me, would say 86 times a run to “drop your shoulders, Nick”, but drop as I may, they just keep bugging me.
I meant to go out around 8, but my blood sugar was at a 40 when I woke. At the tail end of 40 minute suspend… so I tried for a 30 min ZB, 2 cups of coffee, one unit of insulin, and was just kind of a mess going out the door. All in all, that part held together reasonably well, and I left at a 170 and returned at a 93. I fought a big spike afterwards, and am still persistently trending upward, but I think it kind of makes sense with the suspend on top of suspend and coffee and diabetes. 😃
Anyway, long story short 😉, I made it just 30 minutes for 3 1/4 miles. And about tomorrow… I’m afraid. Very, very afraid… You really think that’s easier than last week’s?? Because how?
---
### Author:  [@Eric](https://forum.fudiabetes.org/u/Eric)
#### Post date: [July 16, 2018, 5:37pm UTC](https://forum.fudiabetes.org/t/dn-s-running-and-other-mishaps-thread/4398/99 "2018-07-16T17:37:52Z")
> [@Nickyghaleb](#):
>
> This is the second Monday “easy” run that has felt hard.
You had your long run yesterday, so today is without the off day. If you can do your long on Saturday, and take your rest day on Sunday, that might help the Monday easy feel more easy.
> [@Nickyghaleb](#):
>
> I left at a 170 and returned at a 93.
I also think starting at 170 is too high. And having an 80 point drop in 30 minutes will make it tough.
Is there anyway to do this without coffee and without carrying that IOB with you on the run?
The idea of the ZB prior to running is to remove the extra insulin. If you do a ZB but then take 1 unit of insulin before you run, that kind of defeats the purpose of the ZB…
> [@Nickyghaleb](#):
>
> And about tomorrow… I’m afraid. Very, very afraid… You really think that’s easier than last week’s?? Because how?
The 200m segments are super-short. About 56 seconds of work for each. Nothing to it.
The 400m segments are only 2 minutes each.
If the paces are too tough, just back them down a little bit. Take nice relaxing recovery jogs so you are ready for the next segment. Slow enough that you can do the next one, but not so slow that your heart rate completely drops.
Don’t be intimidated by it. You are thinking about it wrong. It is only about 16 minutes and 20 seconds of total work. The recovery jogs and warmups and cool-downs are nothing.
Only 16 minutes, DN.
---
### Author:  [@Nickyghaleb](https://forum.fudiabetes.org/u/Nickyghaleb)
#### Post date: [July 16, 2018, 7:54pm UTC](https://forum.fudiabetes.org/t/dn-s-running-and-other-mishaps-thread/4398/100 "2018-07-16T19:54:53Z")
> [@Eric](#):
>
> If you can do your long on Saturday, and take your rest day on Sunday, that might help the Monday easy feel more easy.
>
>  Nickyghaleb:
👍
> [@Eric](#):
>
> Is there anyway to do this without coffee and without carrying that IOB with you on the run?
I can’t guarantee standing up in the morning without my coffee. I just had to take a sip of my coffee to gather the strength to even think about an answer to your question. And before you say anything about my so-called _dependence_ on coffee… people have their _other things_. I have my coffee, my exercise, and, from time to time, my chocolate chips, and… i don’t want to keep listing all of the things i have because coffee and exercise are the only two i care about, and they’re best together. Didn’t you tell me we could talk about alternative insulin delivery stuff so that we could avoid these painful talks about coffee?
> [@Eric](#):
>
> The idea of the ZB prior to running is to remove the extra insulin. If you do a ZB but then take 1 unit of insulin before you run, that kind of defeats the purpose of the ZB…
Don’t I know… but, if you remember, this particular workaround came as a result of the last morning with similar conditions, the low and the suspend and the coffee and the ZB… and I went out the door at almost 300. We talked about doing 40% of a food bolus so that I could avoid that. Which brings me back to the coffee. I understand why you’d like me to lose the coffee, but a certain darkness moves in when I say those words…
> [@Eric](#):
>
> Nothing to it.
> [@Eric](#):
>
> only 2 minutes each.
> [@Eric](#):
>
> The recovery jogs and warmups and cool-downs are nothing.
> [@Eric](#):
>
> Only 16 minutes, DN.
When I look at it _that_ way, yes, it’s almost like i’m doing nothing at all. 😃 so i’ll stop my crying and give it a shot. AND I think i’ve arranged a morning run which really should make it much nicer…
---
### Author:  [@Eric](https://forum.fudiabetes.org/u/Eric)
#### Post date: [July 16, 2018, 8:11pm UTC](https://forum.fudiabetes.org/t/dn-s-running-and-other-mishaps-thread/4398/101 "2018-07-16T20:11:32Z")
> [@Nickyghaleb](#):
>
> When I look at it that way, yes, it’s almost like i’m doing nothing at all. 😃 so i’ll stop my crying and give it a shot.
Part of training is pushing back the limits of your mind.
Your body can do the Tuesday run. Just listen to your body.
> [@Nickyghaleb](#):
>
> Which brings me back to the coffee. I understand why you’d like me to lose the coffee, but a certain darkness moves in when I say those words…
We need to get the coffee thing figured out. Can we work through a few things?
Just troubleshooting for now…
Is there a spike if you have it in the afternoon? How about if you have decaf in the afternoon, is there a spike there?
I am assuming it is not sweetened with sugar, right? (Dumb question, just want to get it verified.)
How long do you need coffee before you run? Can you have it an hour or two before - like coffee at 8am, run at 10am?
Can you run in the afternoon with no coffee?
Would you spike from something like 5 hour Energy with caffeine?
Give me some boundaries you have with it and let’s see what we can do.
Just trying to figure out what is happening with it and if there is either a fix or an alternative. I am not saying give up the coffee, but starting above 150 and dropping almost 100 points is something we need to work hard to avoid.
---
### Author:  [@NickM](https://forum.fudiabetes.org/u/NickM)
#### Post date: [July 17, 2018, 1:58am UTC](https://forum.fudiabetes.org/t/dn-s-running-and-other-mishaps-thread/4398/102 "2018-07-17T01:58:57Z")
> [@Nickyghaleb](#):
>
> Never heard of it but sounds interesting. Is the information beneficial in any way?
Age-grades are beneficial if you want to monitor the progress of your physical performance in the longer term. Doing a PB is good for your confidence. At the age of 58 I am not going to run 10k as fast as I did 10 years ago, but age-grading shows that I am now performing better than I did then, relative to my age.
Age-grades also help you to keep a sense of perspective as you get older. That 5 or 10k time done by a young adult male might sound overawing, but once translated into the equivalent time for someone of your age and sex, it might sound much more achievable. Age-grading is the standard method of handicapping in Masters athletics (and Parkrun) and allows comparison between runners of different age and sex.
---
### Author:  [@Nickyghaleb](https://forum.fudiabetes.org/u/Nickyghaleb)
#### Post date: [July 17, 2018, 4:10am UTC](https://forum.fudiabetes.org/t/dn-s-running-and-other-mishaps-thread/4398/103 "2018-07-17T04:10:52Z")
> [@Eric](#):
>
> Is there a spike if you have it in the afternoon?
yes. I often use it as a correction for a low.
> [@Eric](#):
>
> ow about if you have decaf in the afternoon
Never in my life have I consumed a cup of decaf… intentionally. Maybe someone has pulled a fast one on me, but I don’t like the taste of coffee… which means decaf is never going to happen.
> [@Eric](#):
>
> I am assuming it is not sweetened with sugar, right?
Sugar free creamer… I probably get about 3-4 grams of carbs in it. So not completely harmless on the carb front either…
> [@Eric](#):
>
> How long do you need coffee before you run? Can you have it an hour or two before - like coffee at 8am, run at 10am?
This is a complicated answer. If I run a little later in the morning, I could definitely have my coffee an hour or two before leaving, but if I get up and try to head out the door, that pushes everything together. That’s why I don’t do _spontaneous_ well.
> [@Eric](#):
>
> Can you run in the afternoon with no coffee?
\<_sigh_\> I hate to even think about it. Now I’m sad again.
😃
> [@Eric](#):
>
> Give me some boundaries you have with it
 Not to be difficult, but I think that’s outside of my boundaries… I haven’t had time to think of them yet, but I know that is on the outside of them. I think that kills young, strong, healthy adolescents sometimes, right? And it’s sold at the dollar store? 😬
I really hate it when people do that… what I have just done. When they have a reason why every single idea of yours won’t work. I DO think that once the treadmill is here, assuming it has all its pieces, some of the coffee stuff will get better as I won’t need to get out first thing in the morning. Much of these problems get better when there is more time between morning coffee and exercise. I’ll try getting up a little early tomorrow for starters. And, of course, will leave you with this… if you want me to try one without coffee, i’ll do it. Just say the word.
Oh, and any ideas about the shoulder problem? Any tricks? Just drop them? 😐
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